[00: 00: 00 – 00: 00: 35]

I tell people, doesn’t matter how highly compensated you are, you cannot pass on a high W-2 income to your ears. It doesn’t work that way. So you’ve got to be thinking about, if I am blessed to be highly compensated, what am I doing to convert that high W-2 income into appreciating assets that are going to contribute to the creation of generational wealth for your family? Which is a big goal of mine and I encourage others around me to set that as a goal and an objective for themselves.

[00: 00: 36 – 00: 01: 11]

Welcome to the Share the Wealth Show, where minority professionals can learn to escape the racial wealth gap and catapult themselves into abundance. Your host, Nicole Pendergrass, grew her net worth from being negative to multiple six figures. Join her on her investigative mission to expose secret strategies of the wealthy so we can all have the tools needed to build the life and legacy we were created to possess. Now it’s time for the show.

[00: 01: 12 – 00: 02: 24]

Hi everyone. Welcome back again for another episode of Share the Wealth Show. This is the show where we talk about strategies on how to build, grow, and protect minority wealth. And today I have with me Mr. Clive Davis. Guys, you do not know, if you don’t know who Clive is, you better start recognizing because he’s doing some huge things. He runs like a really popular Facebook group, Multifamily for African Americans, and I just. There’s just so much behind the story. I know a little bit, but I’m excited to dig into it and to share his story with you guys because I know it’s gonna be a source of inspiration for you all. Thank you, thank you, Clive, for agreeing to come onto the show. Thanks for having me, Nicole. I’m glad that we get to do this and I’m glad to share with your audience. Yeah, this is great. And I actually, I’m excited because I get to brag because I got to actually have brunch with Clive. and my other friend Nicole, the two Nicole’s and Clive hanging out in Houston. And that was fun. So we got to do that again next time I’m either in Atlanta or you’re in New York or, oh, you’re gonna be in New York for this in the summer, right?

[00: 02: 25 – 00: 03: 45]

For diversity. I will be at the diversity and commercial real estate conference at the end of July. Yes. And that’ll be in New York city on Columbia’s campus. So I will be there for sure. Already got my ticket. Okay. I have some family stuff that’s really trying to throw a wrench in my plans for that weekend. And I’m like, come on, man, y’all can’t, I got it. I’m in New York. I can’t travel that much and there’s something happening here. I have to be there every day. As much as I want to help, um, Eddie all out with it. Okay. Never mind. I don’t can go on a whole rant with that. But anyway, guys, let me tell you a little bit about Clive. He has had years as a corporate transactional attorney in banking real estate. M&A and securities with a global Wall Street firm headquartered in New York. And he’s also spent six Years in-house counsel experience with global pharmaceutical company that’s headquartered in New York as well. Now he lives in Atlanta and is the chief compliance officer of a… No, that was previously, nine years in Atlanta as a chief compliance officer of a Belgian pharmaceutical company in his previous life. So now Clive is… I think I’m on my third life now. So. You’re on your third life now.

[00: 03: 46 – 00: 04: 49]

Yeah. But anyway, Clive has a JD from Columbia University Law School and is admitted to practice in New Jersey, New York and before the court of international trade. He also holds an MA from SUNY Albany and a BA with high honors from Rutgers University. Oh man. This is crazy. And he’s also a student of the Brad Sumrock group from 2018. So you’ve been at it a while. When did you, you have so much education and so much experience, like when did you decide after all those years spending, getting to that point, cause you know, getting to law school, getting through law school, taking the test, practicing all that’s not easy. It is kind of like you just gave that up to go into real estate. What is the story behind that? Like, how long were you doing that before you decided? Why did you decide? Like, I need to know more.

[00: 04: 50 – 00: 06: 18]

Yeah, so it’s a long story. I’m going to give you a shorter version of it. But the essence of it is that I’ve had an interest in real estate for more than 20 years. And you heard this while we were together in Houston. But my very first real estate investment was a duplex property that I acquired in Cape Coral, Florida in 1999. My parents had retired there three years earlier. So basically I was a lawyer in New York, working, living in New York City. I acquired the property, the duplex in Florida. I put my parents’ names on a checking account. I had the rents going into that account and that was basically their retirement. uh, fund, um, and just enabled me to give them a little bit of independence without them having to ask me. So early on, they would still ask me if something happened, if the heat of pump on the pool went or whatever, and we need 3000 for the, the heat of pump or whatever. I would just say, go get it from your account. That’s what your account is for. And because I was well compensated, I didn’t need the thousand or so that property was kicking off each month and so it could just accumulate there and then it would be a resource for them. So that was my very first investment and I held that all throughout my 20 years of corporate life.

[00: 06: 19 – 00: 07: 52]

So first role was a lawyer Wall Street firm transitioned and joined Pfizer as in house counsel for them. They relocated me to Atlanta way back in 2005 I stayed on with them for another couple of years. And then I became a chief compliance officer for a Belgian pharma company who had its US headquarters or has its US headquarters here in Atlanta. So at the end of 2016 is when I asked myself the question, if not now, when? And the question I was asking is, you’ve always had this interest in real estate. you’ve always had this flirtation with being an entrepreneur without really knowing what that is and what that looks like. When are you gonna scratch that itch? When are you gonna take that leap of faith and go explore and see what that’s all about? And so at the end of 2016 is when I said, yep, this is the time. My oldest at the time of four children was probably six months away from college. And so I wanted to spend more time with her. And so this was a… perfect opportunity for me to take a break, step off the treadmill, the conveyor belt, the step away from the rat race, if you will, and then kind of just give thought to what I wanted to do. And so one of the first things that I did when I left corporate is I went and bought a five unit in the same location that the duplex was in.

[00: 07: 53 – 00: 09: 22]

And that gave me an opportunity to spend more time. with my parents, in particular my mother, who had been bouncing between hospital, nursing home and home. And I wasn’t really seeing her as much as I wanted to. And that was another kind of driving factor of, yeah, Clive, you’re in this situation, you’re well compensated, but your time is not your own. And so, you know, I’m in Brussels four or five times a year. I’m in South Paulo four or five times a year. I’m in Mexico City. And then all of the domestic travel on top of that. So very demanding, a big draw on my time. And so you have the paradox of being well compensated, but your time not being your own. And so part of the desire to explore a different pasture was let me buy back my time and kind of refocus, recalibrate and give something else a shot. And so for me, When I tell people I did 20 years and then I essentially walked away from that and went for the first time in my adult life, I went from, I don’t think since the age of 17 or 18, I had a situation where I had more money leaving my pocket, leaving my household and was coming in on a month over month over month basis. And in 2017, that became my new reality that I had not experienced in the 45 or 35 years prior.

[00: 09: 23 – 00: 10: 19]

So that took some transition, but I wanted to give this thing a shot. I wanted to take the leap of faith. And for me, I was at that point looking at corporate life as that’s my safety net, because if this thing doesn’t work out, I know I can always go get a six-figure job. It may not be something I’m passionate about or that I wanna run home and have discussions about what I’m doing on a day-to-day basis. But the kids are gonna eat, tuition’s gonna be paid, food’s gonna be in the pantry, we’ll be fine, if that comes to pass. So that was kind of the backup plan. And so I just shifted my mindset about how I looked at that nine to five W-2 job. And so some people were like, they’re fearful of making the jump because they jump into the unknown. And when you’re an entrepreneur, nothing is guaranteed.

[00: 10: 20 – 00: 11: 34]

Listen, I know you’ve been digging in studying everything you can listening to all the podcasts, reading all the books, even going to meetups. You basically have a degree from YouTube University, right? But you still feel stuck. You don’t know how to actually implement what you’ve learned. You’re nervous about taking the next step. So I’ve decided to start the Micro Family Investing Accelerator. This is a mentorship program where I personally guide you through my five proprietary pillars so you can learn how to buy your first commercial multifamily property and scale while not biting off more than you can chew by focusing on five to 20 units. That’s what I call micro family. And so you can also get hands on guidance from an experienced micro family investor who’s been right where you are. And so you can also create the cash flow needed. to give you freedom and options to build the abundant life that you were destined to live. So I’ll be limiting the first cohort because they’ll have direct access to me and I will be heavily invested in their success. If you’re ready to grab 2023 by the horns, schedule a free discovery call with me today. The link is in the show notes. And now let’s get back to the show.

[00: 11: 35 – 00: 13: 24]

So, you know, people are fearful of leaving that comfort zone and making that jump. And I just said to myself, there’s really not a lot of security in what you think is a comfort zone because someone could come in and say, Nicole, we love you. We no longer have a need for your department. Nicole, we love you. We no longer have a need for your role. They’re always gonna do what’s in the best interest of them and the company. And it’s not personal, it’s business. And you’ve also got to, as an employee, I think I recommend that you view your role like that. regardless of how highly compensated you are. Because I tell people, doesn’t matter how highly compensated you are, you cannot pass on a high W-2 income to your ears. It doesn’t work that way. So you’ve got to be thinking about, if I am blessed to be highly compensated, what am I doing to convert that high W-2 income into appreciating assets that are gonna contribute to the creation of general… generational wealth for your family, which is a big goal of mine. And I encourage others around me to set that as a goal and an objective for themselves. But very few people that I’m aware of create generational wealth as an employee. There are exceptions to every rule and there are people who are employees making seven figures and more. Bonus and stock and what have you, but that’s not the reality for most employees. Most employees are not going to create generational wealth. They will not have a real shot at creating generational wealth unless they start kind of disrupting the status quo.

[00: 13: 25 – 00: 14: 33]

And so I read something the other day that said, there was a survey that said, most people when surveyed said that they think that they will need between three and five million to have a comfortable retirement. And so if you do the math and reverse engineer, how do I get to three to 5 million to have a comfortable retirement? Put in 22,000 or whatever it’s up to these days into a 401k, maxing it out and having it sit 60% here, 30% here and 10% here and thinking that’s going to create a nest egg for you that you can live comfortably off. And pass something on and leave something, a legacy behind for your kids and your grandchildren, that’s just not the reality. And so when I talk about generational wealth, I’m talking about impacting my not yet conceived grandchildren. So I already know my kids are gonna be fine, but I’m talking about leaving something that my grandchildren who may or may not come to know me, they will be fine based upon the foundation that I’ve set for them. There’s so much in there. You gave me so much information.

[00: 14: 34 – 00: 15: 59]

Firstly, just what you just ended off with. That is the one thing a lot of people think of generational wealth, or not even thinking about generational wealth or legacy. They’re just worried about their kids. Like that first step, like, oh, I want to give my kids everything I never had. And I’m doing all this for my children and give them everything. And that’s all well and good. Like I want my kids to thrive too, but. thinking, having the foresight to think beyond your children, like it’s hard because they’re not here yet. You can’t see, feel, and touch them, at least for some people with grandkids, you know what I mean? Or even think about like great grandkids, you know? So I have two, I have people who say, have two trains of thoughts when it comes to that. It’s either some people say, I wanna give my kids everything that they ever had, like, or everything that I never had. And then the other train of thought is. No, I’m not giving them anything. I’m going to teach them and let them earn it on their own because I don’t want to create like England spoiled and entitlement and all that stuff. So this was not even a question, but which one are you kind of leaning more towards? Because that’s hard. Yeah, so for me, I say it’s not an either or. And I’ve heard people say the same thing, that I don’t want to give them too much to the point where they lack a work ethic. And they don’t respect the things that they’ve been blessed with and the privilege that they have and what have you.

[00: 16: 00 – 00: 17: 41]

I’m like, I think it’s our job to do for our children what our parents could not do for us. And especially when you’re coming from a lack of privilege, I don’t think there’s anything wrong with you working hard to give your kid the benefit of privileges that that you can afford to them based upon whatever you’ve been able to achieve and accomplish. That does not prevent you from raising conscientious children that have, that are empathetic, that know the importance of community and their role within the community. I think you can do all of that and still raise level-headed kids who go on to do great things. And so… when I look at my own children. So my oldest is, she’s currently living in Cali, Colombia in South America, and she’s teaching English there and having a great time and what have you. She’s been the beneficiary of lots of privilege that I didn’t have. One of my big goals with her was, and the other children, you will graduate from college with zero student debt. So I know what it was to graduate from Columbia Law School with six figures in debt just from law school, setting aside undergrad and what have you. And that ended up dictating some of what I ultimately thought what was available to me for me to do. And a big part of it was I got to pay this debt down.

[00: 17: 42 – 00: 19: 07]

And so when you survey, you canvass the opportunities in front of you. You don’t necessarily pick the one that you’re most passionate about or most drawn to. You tend to get directed towards or pulled towards that which is going to be most lucrative financially. And so I found myself on this path becoming a corporate transactional lawyer. Whereas before law school, I didn’t even know what a corporate transactional lawyer was or did. And I’d never interacted with one. But you graduate. You’ve got six figures, which is a mortgage on you. I’m living in New York City where, you know, you know, even though I was, again, well compensated, $100,000 or more starting out, I’m still in New York City and, you know, that doesn’t go as far as it does elsewhere in the country. So I wanted my kids to have the privilege and the benefit of and I wanted them to be in a position where they would not have the same excuse that I had. So they wouldn’t be able to say, hey, dad, I’m really passionate about architectural art or whatever it is, but that’s not gonna pay the bills. So therefore I’m doing this, which I don’t love. And I saw you dad do X, Y, and Z for 15, 20 years. And I’m gonna go put in my time now cause that’s the only option that I have in front of me.

[00: 19: 08 – 00: 20: 33]

So I wanted them to have the privilege to be able to select. the thing that they are truly passionate about. So, my daughter’s been able to get involved with immigration, immigrant rights, and she’s worked for several not-for-profits, and she’s working in an area that she’s passionate about. There are many things that she could be doing that would compensate her much better than the things that she’s been doing, but she doesn’t have the… anchor weighing her down of six figures in debt or whatever and that student loan payment that she needs to make. And she didn’t really appreciate that until she graduated and then started hearing her peers talk about their student loan debts that have now started to kick in and they’ve got to pay that and what percentage of their take-home pay is going towards that. And so she now has a better appreciation for that. And so… That’s a long-winded way of me saying, I think you should give your children all the privilege that you’re able to, you’re blessed to, but that doesn’t prevent you from raising well-rounded kids that are conscientious and empathetic. Yeah, no, I completely agree. And that’s a really great example, like the graduating with no student loan debt.

[00: 20: 34 – 00: 21: 51]

I just happened to be, I did not have no student loan debt, but I happened to be, I guess, fortunate enough to have enough of a low income to get scholarships. So it wasn’t even, and actually I got enough student aid to kind of like help. So I didn’t have like a hundred K of student loan debt, but I probably graduated undergrad with like 25. So that was definitely not bad comparatively, but still I still feel that same pull to wanna not have my kids graduate with high student loan debt. And I also actually, from my college experience, I think I won’t be pushing my kids that they have to go to college as like a requirement. Like I want them to have a better idea. And when you’re young, you don’t really know what you and ultimately want to do from some time. Most of the time, young kids don’t know. They’re just going in, picking whatever electives and majors, but. I want my kids to have a better idea of what they would want to be doing so that time that they’re in school, if they decide to go, is like optimized. And they’re not just, you know, twiddling their thumbs and taking random classes they don’t really need or care about because they don’t know what to take kind of thing. But they also won’t just be sitting at home on my couch.

[00: 21: 52 – 00: 23: 54]

They either have the entrepreneurial spirit and doing that or going to school because they have a particular career that they’re going after. So it’s either way I’m a little bit more flexible than my mom was on school, school. So part of that decision in two at the end of 2016 was, am I being a hypocrite? Am I modeling what I’m telling my children? So I’ve told them from an early age, you can do and be whatever it is that you want to do, go do what you’re passionate about. And so in a reflective period, I’m saying to myself, am I really modeling what I’ve been telling them or am I being a hypocrite? Because I had not up until that point really taken a leap of faith and stepped outside of my comfort zone to pursue something with no guarantees. But yet, I found myself telling my kids that routinely that yeah, you gotta try things that are gonna challenge you and you’ve gotta step outside your comfort zone. But I got somewhat complacent after 20 years of corporate life. And that growth trajectory had flattened quite a bit over the last several years prior to me departing. You know, when you’re in your 20s, the trajectory looks like this. Your 30s, you know, it’s still aiming up, but as you get into your 40s and 50s, it starts to flatten. And so that complacency sets in. And so I also just wanted them to know that, look, you can go do this and you know, it can be beneficial, lucrative and all of that. You can also try something very outside of your comfort zone. And so they over the last several years have gotten to see dad in a very different light than they saw earlier in their lives.And so now I feel confident that they would be much more embracing of an entrepreneurial pursuit of whatever kind than they might’ve been had they never seen me kind of step out and take the sleep. Nice.

[00: 23: 55 – 00: 25: 43]

Before you said that your backup plan was to go back to corporate, if you made the leap and you decided, oh, it didn’t work out, or things just weren’t, you know, I could always go back and get another six-figure job. So in your mind, what was, did you have a timeframe, a time limit that you gave yourself? Like, oh, if this doesn’t work by XYZ date or in three years, you know, I’m going back? I didn’t have a set timeline. But. The de facto timeline is tied to what reserves do you have to live off, to sustain you until you get that breakthrough. And so for me, I was in a good position in terms of reserves and savings. I had always lived, we had always lived below our means. And so as my income progressively increased over the years, our lifestyle didn’t creep up with it. So there was no car note. The only debt that we had at the time that I left was collateralized debt tied to real estate. There’s no credit card debts. There’s no car notes. There’s no holiday home that we just have there as a luxury, but we’re paying each month whether we’re there, there was none of that. So our lifestyle didn’t change dramatically. So I knew that, okay. I’ve got a good amount of reserves. I’m seeing it dwindle every month because I’m in that deficit where I’ve got more going out than is coming in for the first time in my adult life. But nonetheless, I knew that I was okay for some time, but that wasn’t a never-ending period of time and that had a limited duration.

[00: 25: 44 – 00: 27: 33]

So in my mind, I was probably giving myself at least a couple of years to see how this thing takes off and kicks into gear. And so one of the things that helped sustain me and add to my reserves in this time period was that duplex that we talked about earlier, I sold that, bought it in 1999, I sold it in 2018, and the proceeds from that, as you can imagine, bought it in 99, sold it in 2018, I had good equity built up in that. So at the time when I sold that, I think I had a mortgage balance of about 70 something thousand. And I think it sold for, I don’t even remember, probably 230 or something like that. So I had a lump sum that came to me that was kind of a lifeline. So like, okay, I can pay off some things. I can put this there and I can keep going in pursuit of what I was pursuing, which was large scale multifamily acquisitions. and becoming a sponsor of these bigger deals. And so that helped sustain me and keep me going. And then two weeks into COVID, at the end of March of 2020, I sold the five unit that ended up yielding a nice bit of proceeds that turned out to be my skin in the game money for the first deal that I would do. And that first deal that I did was at the end of 21, 244 units that we acquired for 30 million and we raised eight and a quarter million.

[00: 27: 34 – 00: 29: 07]

So as you know, Nicole, you’re expected as a sponsor to have skin in the game. So when you’re out there raising funds and they say, well, Clive, do you have money in the deal? The answer better be yes. It couldn’t be like, no, I need you to put 100,000 in, but I’ve got 25 in it or I’ve got nothing in it. You want to be able to say that I believe in this deal and my money’s in it. And, you know, here are all the reasons why it’s a good deal. So there was no planned time period. I know that failure is not an option for me. So once I set my sights on I am going to acquire a large scale multifamily property. The first offer I submitted was in April of 2019. I did not get awarded my first deal until the summer of 2021. So yes, COVID was in there and that was kind of disrupting inventory and deal flow and what have you. But nonetheless, two years between me making the intention, submitting that first offer of intent. And getting awarded my first deal. So that period of needing to sustain myself, that window was one where the sale of those pieces of real estate ended up enabling me to keep going. Whereas others may have said, it’s been a year, it’s been two years, I can’t keep going with this. This ain’t for me, I’m going back to what I know that my comfort zone.

[00: 29: 08 – 00: 29: 58]

And so you have those temptations, you have the occasional calls that come in from headhunters or the LinkedIn job notification about so-and-so is hiring a general counsel for X, Y, and Z or whatever. And you’ve got to resist that temptation and just know what your purpose is and what your why is. And if you believe in yourself, again, failure is just not an option. So in that timeframe, and I know, like you said, COVID was in there and there were some things when like first everything kind of froze and then real estate just skyrocketed. How many, cause you know, you always hear, at least if you guys are new, the standard that I hear all the time is between 80 and 100 offers you need to put in before you find one that’s gonna work. How many offers do you think you put in from the very first offer to the time that you got a deal?

[00: 29: 59 – 00: 32: 11]

Yeah, so early on, I probably wasn’t submitting as many offers as I should have been submitting. But it wasn’t so much the number of offers, it was how many deals was I underwriting. So I underwrote hundreds of deals to get that first deal. Maybe it was 120 deals I’d probably underwritten. I was much more thoughtful about the deals I chose to offer on. And people have a different thought about this. Some people, they will offer, and they could be millions apart from the ask price and their offer. And for me, I was like, look, if I can’t get within the strike zone, I’m not gonna waste their time because I don’t want them to waste my time. And it was very much a buyer’s market at that point in time. So when I offered on properties where there were 25, I offered on the property where there were 48 offers and that got weeded down to the best and final rounds. And then there were three rounds of, you know, so these were, it’s a buyer’s market. Me, you know, if they’re asking for 30 million and I’m offering 22, I’m just going through the exercise and wasting my time and wasting their time and telling them that really I’m not a good, I can’t really judge the market. And I’m offering eight million when they’ve got 40 offers on the property. And not only are they going to get their asking price, they’re likely to get above their asking price. So there are a lot of deals. If it didn’t pencil for me, if I couldn’t get within the strike zone, I did not offer. It doesn’t mean that I didn’t underwrite it fully to arrive at that conclusion that it was not worth my time to submit an offer, but I definitely submitted over a hundred. I definitely. underwrote over a hundred deals prior to landing that first deal. Okay. That’s what, that is what I meant too, that you had to underwrite and analyze that many deals before you find the ones, cause you’re not going to offer on all of them and that makes sense to pick the ones where you’re close in the strike zone for you. What’s the strike zone?

[00: 32: 12 – 00: 32: 49]

Okay guys, don’t kill me, but I’m going to have to cut this episode short. This is too juicy and we need to do this in a part two. So stay tuned for the next episode that airs and you can hear the rest of our conversation. Did you love this episode of Share the Wealth Show? Be sure to connect with Nicole by following her on LinkedIn, Instagram, or Facebook. If you picked up any of the gems that were dropped by today’s guests, make sure you not only put them in your bag, but if you know of someone who would benefit from this information, don’t keep it to yourself. Share the wealth, and make sure to leave us a rating and review. We’ll see you for next week’s episode. Subscribe so you’ll be notified.