Episode No. 89

Beat the Banks at Their Own Game: Get Lower Rates, Faster Loans, & Total Control w/ This Secret Policy with Eunice & Lee Johnson

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Episode No. 89

           Listen To The Podcast On

            Your Favourite Platform


In this episode of the Share the Wealth Show, we welcome back the power couple, Eunice and Lee Johnson, who continue to share about the benefits of incorporating cash value life insurance as a financial strategy for building wealth and managing cash flow. 📈💰 

Here are the key points discussed:

🔄 Concerns about traditional retirement planning due to inflation and limited pensions.

👎 Critiques of 401(k) plans, with arguments for alternative wealth-building strategies.

💰 Benefits of cash value life insurance: tax advantages, fund access flexibility, potential for higher returns.

🔄 “Infinite banking” concept: using life insurance for investments or expenses.

🏦 Differences between mutual and shareholder insurance companies.

🔧 Importance of customization in policy design for individual needs and financial goals.

🏦 Advantages of cash value life insurance over traditional banking institutions.

💳 Considerations for loan repayment and its impact on policy cash value and death benefits.

💡 Strategies for maximizing policy benefits: leveraging for multiple family members, using policy dividends.

🔊 Make sure you catch this enlightening episode! Tune in and discover the flexibility, control, and wealth-building potential offered by cash value life insurance policies in a comprehensive financial plan. 🎧

Eunice and Lee Johnson are the visionaries behind Value Investment Partners (VIP). Their mission is to partner with like-minded individuals and families looking to build generational wealth through investing in alternative assets and empowering individuals to achieve wealth. 

Their focus is education and investing in assets with risk adjusted returns; in short, assets that yield higher than average returns, for lower-than-average comparative risk, affording our clients Financial Freedom, Time Freedom and Location Freedom. 

Their services are centered around 4 aspects:

  1. Multifamily investors: they partner with investors looking to invest passively in multifamily syndications. 
  2. They also work through with their clients to establish their own “Family Bank”. This is achieved using a customized Cash Value Life Insurance policies (CVLI) that has both living and death benefits. 
  3. As a business, they work with other business owners and assist with establishing and building business credit. They know and understand the importance of transacting as a business and not relying on personal credit to grow your business.
  4. Lastly, to achieve all these, it takes a growth mindset: they coach professionals who are looking for direction in their careers and desire more out of their professional journeys. 

Key Quotes:

“Our community needs to learn how to leverage their assets while they are still in control of that asset.”

  • Lee Johnson 

“There’s so many options available but of course you’re going to miss all of these options if you just don’t ask.”

  • Eunice Johnson 

Books Mentioned: 401(k)haos


Lee’s previous episodes:

Ep 44 | Leveraging Your W2 To Build The Confidence And Capital To Invest Passively with Lee Johnson

Ep 45 | Your W2 Is Your Addiction: Make A Plan, Copy The Wealthy & Bet On Yourself w/ Lee Johnson


Connect with Eunice and Lee!

You can find them on

Website: https://www.valueinvestmentpartners.com/ 




LinkedIn: Lee Johnson | LinkedIn

  Eunice Johnson | LinkedIn

Email: eunice@valueinvestmentpartners.com

Office: 571-444-8474



Let’s get connected! 

You can find Nicole on 

LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/nicole-pendergrass/

Instagram https://www.instagram.com/nvestornikki/?hl=en

Facebook https://www.facebook.com/nvestornikki


[00:00:00 – 00:00:40] – Lee Johnson | Value Investment Partners

Well, this is the analogy that you have to put forward in front of people. They’re giving you that 0.01% interest but if you go to the bank and say I have a need for a loan, they’re going to charge you 7%. So, they only given you 0.01 but if you need access to funding, they’re going to charge you 7% that arbitrage is in their favor. It’s always going to be in your favor. So, this is to say well rather than banking on Bank of America Right, I want to have the Pendergrass family bank.


[00:00:41 – 00:01:39] – Intro

Welcome to the Share the Wealth Show, where minority professionals can learn to escape the racial wealth gap and catapult themselves into abundance. Your host, Nicole Pendergrass, grew her net worth from being negative to multiple six figures. Join her on her investigative mission to expose secret strategies of the wealthy so we can all have the tools needed to build the life and legacy we were created to possess. Now it’s time for the show.

Hey guys! So, we’re back again, this is the second part of the episode with today’s guests. I need you if you have not heard part 1, go back to the previous episode, and listen to that first and then come back and join us here today. You need to hear the whole conversation so why we split into two parts. There’s so many nuggets it’s so juicy. Go back and listen to the first part!


[00:00:40 – 00:02:37] – Nicole Pendergrass (Noirvest Holdings)

So, if you are trying to invest and live an abundant lifestyle in your retirement, people planned they think they’re going to retire and be able to travel the world and live on the beach and do whatever they want because now they are getting funded, I guess by their retirement. I mean pension is kind of a thing of the past. People still get pensions, some now the next generations will not. But in any case, you’re not really still living at the level that you think you’re going to especially with inflation. Like if you think you’re thinking, oh well I’m going to get $10,000 a month in my pension. Yeah, depending on what you’re living at and the level you’re living now but what about in 50 years when you finally retire? What’s $10,000 a month going to buy you, right? It’s not going to give you the lifestyle you probably are assuming or that you in your head would think that you want when you get to that retirement age. That’s definitely something else too.


[00:02:38 – 00:06:18] – Lee Johnson | Value Investment Partners

I don’t think that people are forecasting a degradation in their lifestyle when they retire. And that plan of leveraging 401k means that, right? So even if you were to take out your distributions at 59 and a half, which is what you have when it comes to your 401k, if you’re still working, that’s going to be additional income that you’re going to be taxed on. So, if you go to the book 401k(aos), he puts forward an argument that it is best not to invest in your 401k for a couple of simple reasons. One, you can’t have access to those resources until 59 and a half. If you need to access or tap into those resources, you can take a loan, right? But if you somehow terminate from that employer within a certain timeframe that loan must be paid back immediately. Otherwise, it’s going to be an early distribution. And with early distribution, there are penalties that go along with that at the same time. But I believe the chief argument that he put forward inside of the book is that although you are deferring paying taxes on a 401k, right? That 401k, if you were to take a distribution will be taxed at your income level, whatever your W2 level is, but it might take it even higher. So that’s probably going to be 21 and above, right?

However, if you were to take a distribution from your insurance policy or loan from your insurance policy, that is typically going to be between whatever the rate is at the insurance company, but that’s around four or five percent. And Elon Musk just showed a reason why you do this is because he didn’t sell his Tesla shares. He took out a loan against his Tesla shares. And that’s what our community needs to learn how to do is leverage those assets while you are still in control of that asset. Too often the family home gets sold when grandma is no longer with us. Right? That house should stay in because that house once is paid off. It’s an it’s a source of cash that can be leveraged to grow. So, 401k he basically put forward the argument that you would pay taxes at plus 25% if you were to take an early distribution. And the reason why he’s saying if you had invested that money, right? Capital gains is if you have the asset held for longer than one year is 15%. So, you now got to compare 25% versus 15%. So, he puts forward the whole entire argument and then it starts to make sense as to why you might want to go over here versus going over there. At the end of the day, it may not be right for that individual. And that’s okay, right? But for those who understand it and it falls into their plan for where they want to go, then come on, there’s an opportunity to come along with us on this journey because we find value in it.


[00:06:19 – 00:07:30] – Nicole Pendergrass (Noirvest Holdings)

And I understand, I love it. have my own bank on yourself type of life insurance policy. And the reason that I opened it, and I thought that it was different in me since then the normal traditional way a whole life policy is normally set up is because in the way that you set it up and the type of company you need to look at, your cash value accumulates much faster than the traditional manner. If that correct me when I’m saying anything that’s have like a bigger your tax refund, you could take that and put it into the policy and charge it up a little bit. But you could still like now current right back around and when you need a loan for something take that out. So, it’s not just like let’s say to me the difference is let’s say I got a big tax refund. Let’s say I have like $5,000. I put it in my bank account, my savings. Then I needed money for something, I go to my savings and I just pull it out and I’m just taking it out. But we want to, we know the bank is not giving you any kind of return, like that.


[00:07:31 – 00:08:28] – Lee Johnson | Value Investment Partners

Zero-point zero one percent. We pulled it up the other day. I’m not trying to put Bank of America on Front Street, but if you had up to $50,000 in a savings account, they would give you 0.01%. Up between a greater than $50,000, they were giving you 0.02%. Understanding, if you were to put money into that account, I would tell you, don’t do it. Go to Las Vegas and party like a rock star because inflation at this point in time is still carrying over 4-5 %. So, if you’re getting this little bit, but if you inflation is wrote in it, you might as well go and have a good time. Life is short. Go and have a good time. But I would say,


[00:08:29 – 00:08:34] – Nicole Pendergrass (Noirvest Holdings)

Or least take 4% to 5% out of your savings and go gamble that because that’s what you lose in any way with inflation.


[00:08:35 – 00:10:35] – Lee Johnson | Value Investment Partners

Well, this is the analogy that you have to put forward in front of people. They’re giving you that 0.01% interest but if you go to the bank and say I have a need for a loan, they’re going to charge you 7%. So, they only given you 0.01 but if you need access to funding, they’re going to charge you 7% that arbitrage is in their favor. It’s always going to be in your favor. So, this is to say well rather than banking on Bank of America Right, I want to have the Pendergrass family bank. Right? And you set up rules around that family bank with the family on how those funds will be used Right, so this way you’re having that conversation with your daughters and you’re saying this is how we use this bank. One of the points that I that you talked about because we got into this and we used a third party. At third party didn’t set us up correctly. After three years of funding our bank, we were like, this thing is not growing cash value. What is the problem? That person has set us up with a policy that grew its death benefit at the expense of its cash value. One of the points that we need to touch upon today is deciding on what type of insurance company you have to use. There’s a mutual company and then there’s a shareholder company. You just have to X out shareholder company because the dividends at a shareholder company are paid to the stockholders. With a mutual company, the dividend is paid to the policy holders.


[00:10:36 – 00:12:15] – Ad1

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[00:12:16 – 00:13:01] – Lee Johnson | Value Investment Partners

That’s the first critical thing that you need to know about setting up your own bank. Mutual company versus shareholder company. The first thing has to be, you need to be with a mutual company. And there are experts out there who can set up your bank incorrectly, which would be to your detriment. And that’s the reason why my wife went and got licensed so that we could understand this fully and be able to share with others our learnings so they can leverage our mistakes and not make the same ones that we made.


[00:13:02 – 00:17:20] – Eunice Johnson | Value Investment Partners

Just to add on to what you’re also saying Lee is, the one you were talking about, using that mutual versus shareholders. Why is this important to you? This is important to you because when you Pull out when you get a loan when you request the loan and get loaned money People will say sometimes well, I’m still being taxed on that loan One yes, you will get taxed on that loan The tax rate is usually way much lower than if you went into a bank Like he said in four or five percent versus going into a bank Where you might be seven eight percent Now when you are taxed that interest that means that mutual insurance company is making some kind of profit but because it’s not a shareholder sort of entity it’s more than usual what that means for you is that when a dividend is declared You also get a part of that dividend. So, you are paying that interest for you to get that little portion back to you in the form of a dividend. Whereas when you go to a bank, a bank is never going to share its dividends with you. Right? So, the only people who get to benefit in the dividends are who? The bank, shareholders, the like, not you. Right? The other thing is we are talking about these loans as well is that a lot of times people also question, okay, if I go and get this loan, how long does it take, what’s the process, how does that work?

Now the wonderful thing about getting this loan from yourself is that one, there is some paperwork to fill out and the paperwork is being because there has to be a record that yes funds have been pulled out of things of that sort. Whereas when you go into a bank, fill out an application form. And just because you filled out an application form does not mean that you’re going to be accepted or you may be accepted, but then they’ll tell you, well, credit is not as bad as great. So instead of getting 7%, we can give you this money at 10%. Right? And it usually doesn’t happen in about 24-48 hours. Whereas when you do it with your family bank or with your cash value life insurance, usually within 24 to 48 hours, you fill out the paperwork, the money is deposited into account. So, there’s all these other benefits that you’re really enjoying. Unlike if you were to walk into a banking institution to go and request for a loan. Nobody’s going to say to you, how are you going to pay it back? You have to pay it back by paying me a thousand every month for the next 24 months. And if you don’t make a payment, I’m going to charge you a penalty for that. When you’ve done a loan from your cash value life insurance, you determine when and how you want to pay it back. Nobody’s going to specify that for you. So those are some of the other benefits that keep coming up to just show you that the difference between this concept versus going into a banking institution, it’s just all these advantages that you get to really enjoy right now versus saying, well, I’ll still stick with going to the bank because the bank will always give me a loan. Yes, they’ll always give you a loan, but you have to look at the differences and see in and who is benefiting more from this loan even?


[00:17:21 – 00:20:07] – Nicole Pendergrass (Noirvest Holdings)

Oh, yeah. And I actually, because I’ve taken out that was one of the main like drawing factors for me taking out a loan from my cash value was because no one was going to tell me when I needed to make payments. Like there was not going to be a payment schedule because what I was using that money for was buying a value-add real estate property. And with value add, if you’re in any kind of real estate, know, it doesn’t cash flow at the beginning. And like there’s a lot of money you still need to put into it to help get it to the level where it does start cash flowing, then maybe you can refinance, pull money out, you know, pay back the loan. I wanted some taking out a loan from my life insurance policy was a cash, cash flow play for me. It was a cash flow strategy because it helped me maintain cash flow without having another loan or payment that I had to make. And no one has ever asked me, I’ve had that loan out for like two years now. I was ever asked for anything for the life insurance policy and I plan to pay it back whatever I refinance when these buildings and I get a lump sum and I’ll put it back in there because the thing is for everyone to understand is even if you never pay back the loan, they will just deduct it from the death benefit when you pass on. So yeah, your heirs might get a little bit less but depending on what your death benefit is it may just be like a drop in the bucket from what you actually owed. So that is definitely another great strategy when it comes to baking on yourself.

The other thing I want to add too that I think for me it was also double dipping and making that money work twice as hard because I put it in the life insurance policy. I went around, turned around and took a loan from it but because it’s a loan I’m not withdrawing from my cash value that money is still in there collecting dividends and still growing whatever the market is doing or whatever this life insurance company does invest that capital. So, whatever that investment is happening, I’m getting dividends from it. Plus, I’ve taken it out and I’ve invested it again over here. So, it’s growing here and it’s growing in my policy. Arbitrage. Extra arbitrage. So that’s another benefit of using a life insurance policy’s cash value to help you with your other financial needs. And even like Lisa, if you think of it as a savings plan and you’re saving, but I don’t, I think it’s still better than savings because it’s not just keeping up with inflation. It’s still invested. You’re still getting dividends. So, it’s like you investing, I don’t want to say the stock market, but I guess similar just to have something that people will understand. So, I can invest there, but like having that money, we could just pull out without selling your shares in the life insurance. Yeah, I get it. Okay, I could go in a whole room.


[00:20:08 – 00:21:06] – Lee Johnson | Value Investment Partners

We can go and that’s the thing about this is when you start having an honest conversation about this and the opportunities that it affords you that’s when you start to get excited about all of this right and we’re you know the conversation has now transitioned on to taking out the loans but there’s also differences that you have to recognize with how the policy is set up is there direct recognition versus non-direct recognition right because yeah we said go with the mutual insurance company right but the next layer to this is whether not if there’s direct recognition versus non-direct recognition so with direct recognition when you take out the loan your cash value level is reduced by the amount of the loan, right?


[00:21:07 – 00:21:39] – Ad2

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[00:21:40 – 00:24:15] – Lee Johnson | Value Investment Partners

So, if you have 50,000 dollars and you take out 30,000 dollars your cash value is now going to be at 20,000 dollars Right? So that’s direct recognition. When you take out the loan, the value, the cash value goes down. But with non-direct recognition, when you take out a loan, if your cash value is at $50,000, it stays at $50,000. Right? That gets you excited because you talked about the double dip in play. Right? Now I’m earning a dividend on my cash value. Right? But I’ve taken out a loan and I now have it invested in some other investment vehicle. So, let’s use this, the analogy that got me excited when I saw your podcast was like, oh, I could turn this into Toro. Right? So, I could take out $25,000 from my cash value policy. And I can put that on to Toro. Right? And if I have a paid off vehicle, right? All the monies that I get from Toro are now just on top of that. I could use that as an arbitrage to pay back the loan, or I could use that money to go in, grow my tour of fleet. But that’s just one opportunity. And as you mentioned, you took out the loan so that you can buy a value-add cash-flowing property. There’s another arbitrage at the same time. But if you haven’t started your own bank, you can’t even have that conversation. All right, you’re not even having that conversation of arbitrage and how it is that you could actually leverage.

But this is one of the reasons why our mission, our passion, and you could probably see that we get excited about this. I don’t know why we get excited about this, but, you know, this is something to get excited about, because banking in and of itself is probably a very boring still dry topic. But once you start to understand this thing, you could get excited about it because then you start to see the opportunities and how you can use it for your family. And that’s what matters at the end of the day is what are you leaving for your family? What kind of legacy are you creating?


[00:24:16 – 00:26:47] – Eunice Johnson | Value Investment Partners

One of the other things that I know you had asked and I didn’t touch on is the cost where people say, well, this is more expensive than term and things of that sort. A lot of times when people say that I usually ask them, so how much do you believe this is? And people will throw numbers at you and I’m like, okay, how much are you able or how much falls within your capacity to pay something like this and they’ll give you a number and that’s what this is all about. It’s not about, well, I hadn’t you call says she’s paying 1500 per month so it means it’s expensive and I can’t afford it. It’s customized. So, we sit down, we have a conversation to understand what your needs are and a lot of times you find that with some people there may be also need to rearrange some of the debt that they have so that they can leverage using the policy to even help them pay off debt, right? So, there is a customization.

There is a process of having those conversations to understand your needs to understand where you are and then coming up with a policy that’s going to be within your willpower. There is no reason in us having a conversation and saying to you, hey, we want you to get onto a policy. And this policy is going to be 1500 when you know that you can afford a thousand or when you know that you know what instead of 15 maybe I can do 2500. It’s customized to your needs that way it you are able to continue making those payments. And there’s so many options sometimes people say to me well, I don’t want to pay for the rest of my life whatever you say job. Those are things that we can sit down and understand to make sure okay if you say to me hey, I’m working now but what’s going to happen if I lose my job. We reassess we come back we look at your policy to see are we able to move anything around to afford you to be able to either be paid up and still maintain that policy but not have to continue with premiums because now you’ve already paid up. So, there’s so many options available but of course you’re going to miss all of these options if you just don’t ask.


[00:26:48 – 00:29:10] – Nicole Pendergrass (Noirvest Holdings)

Yes. You need the conversation to start because that’s like one thing for me even was I asked that conference that question, you know, with my advisor and said like, well, at what year there’s a certain timeframe where your contributions, your premium payments and the policy becomes like self-sufficient and the dividends that it’s giving off can pay for its own premium. So, you no longer have to contribute to that particular policy, or maybe you can take that that capital you were using and you can open another policy. Now you can get one for each of your kids or whatever it is, but I definitely, I started start somewhere like have the conversation even if you think it’s expensive, like Eunice said, ask the advisor like, is the like, this is my amount, does it make sense for me to start with a lower amount? Like, can I start lower and build because I’m starting nowhere near, I’ll tell y’all I’m paying 500 dollars a month. That’s my policy, I’m sharing that with everybody. I just give like that was a low amount, right? And I wanted to start with that because that’s what I could do and sustain for right now as I’m still building and growing. But I still have room to in like I almost invest to save big chunks of money. If I want without hitting some other limit that you are, you know, capped at based on what your income is.

So, there’s other things to think about. And the other thing I’ll say about like just having the conversation, finding the right people to start this, having the conversation. One thing like I started my policy when I found out about it. Like I read a few books on it. I got obsessed. I started contacting different advisors and I had conversations with probably like four or five different people before I decided which one, I wanted to go with. I started it before I even bought like any like my next commercial property. But I didn’t even have an idea. I didn’t have a deal in the works. Like I had nothing. I had no idea. I just knew I’m going need this sometime. And at least I just pulled my money back out whenever I need it. I don’t know when the opportunity is going to come. But at least let me set it up. Cause then I know I could just turn back right back around and pull my money right back out. That’s why I didn’t feel stuck to me. Like when you’re paying on your mortgage or you want to put an extra $20,000 to get your mortgage balance down. Well, good luck getting that back out. Right?


[00:29:11 – 00:29:51] – Lee Johnson | Value Investment Partners

Well, the thing is the big has to make a decision on how much money you can take out of your house if you were going to do a he locks for equity loan. The bank gets to make that decision for you. So, if you are in a position where you’re in between jobs and you want to apply for that equity line, they may tell you no, because you don’t have a steady source of income to come in. Right. But the thing is you actually did two things that are very beneficial when it comes to these policies. One, you started when you were younger. right because all of this is based off the actuarial table.


[00:29:52 – 00:29:54] – Nicole Pendergrass (Noirvest Holdings)

Actually, no, I started three years ago.


[00:29:55 – 00:29:56] – Lee Johnson | Value Investment Partners

Yeah, no, but you were younger.


[00:29:57 – 00:30:01] – Nicole Pendergrass (Noirvest Holdings)

You younger than I am three years ago. All right, I can do that. I thought, okay, never mind. I get.


[00:30:02 – 00:31:12] – Lee Johnson | Value Investment Partners

But the thing is that also helps to lock you in because you can have as many of these policies as you want. Right now, in our household, I think we’re up to three policies. We have policies on our children at the same time. So, if you have an insurable interest in a person and what you want to do is you want to stack these banking concepts, right? Guess what? When you get the policy on the children, it’s very, very low because the chances of a child passing on is very, very low. But this then comes in. You remember how we got excited about the opportunities that we could have around this. We could get excited about whether or not if we go our plan. plan is going to be used for our children to go to college versus that 529 plan. But when they’re finished with college and we’ve paid back the loan, that policy will eventually be transitioned over to them. Right. So that’s something that we could also get excited about that. We can’t when we’re talking about a Roth IRA or we’re talking about a 529 plan.


[00:31:13 – 00:31:59] – Nicole Pendergrass (Noirvest Holdings)

Okay, guys, don’t kill me, but I’m gonna have to cut this episode short. So, stay tuned for the next episode that airs and you can hear the rest of our conversation.

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