John Casmon: You wanna make sure that you control the exit.
You know you want to sell when it makes sense for you to sell.
There are different strategies you can employ to do that, but that’s one way you approach it.
The other thing is, from a personal standpoint, you want to make sure you have the right assurance for yourself, the right life insurance, and you should talk to your advisor so you understand your current situation.
But as you learn more and more, you’ll understand that there are more strategies that are open to you than maybe even your financial advisors aware of.
Welcome to the Share the Wealth Show where minority professionals can learn to escape the racial wealth gap and catapult themselves into abundance.
Your host, Nicole Pendergrass, grew her net worth from being negative to multiple 6 figures.
Join her on her investigative mission to expose secret strategies of the wealthy so we can all have the tools needed to build the life and legacy we were created to possess.
Now it’s time for the show.
Welcome back everyone to the Share the Wealth Show.
I am your host, Nicole Pendergrass, and today we have with us John Kasman.
Now, you don’t want to miss this episode.
You really want to tune in because we went over his entire journey.
From him starting as W2 corporate employee and looking for a way to have more control over his income because he saw his job in his industry, the company he was working for really like starts to go bankrupt in the recession.
And so from there he found out about real estate and then he found like an unofficial mentor and basically working from going from 2 units to over 1000 unitswith partners.
And you don’t want to miss his insights, the information that.
He gives John is a real estate entrepreneur.
As you can tell from what I just said, he’s in real estate and he’s partnered with Disney professionals to invest in over $100 millionworth of apartments.
He also actively is a multi family investors and he consults them to help them start and grow their business.
He hosts the Multifamily Insights podcast which was formally target Market Insights.
That is a great podcast guys.
If you have not listened to that, please tune in if you are interested in.
Thursday at all Multifamily Insights, John Kasman and he’s also the Creole Co creator of the Midwest Real Estate Networking Summit.
So prior to becoming a full time investor, like I mentioned, he worked in corporate America overseeing marketing campaigns for General Motors, Nike and Coors Light.
So this is an episode that’s chock full of gems, information and things that you really need to know.
So don’t miss it.
Here we go.
Welcome everyone to another episode of the Share the Wealth.
So, and I am here today with the infamous John Kasman.
So John, welcome, welcome and thank you so much for joining us today.
Hey Nicole, thank you for having me today.
Infamous, that’s the first time I’ve heard that.
So appreciate it.
Oh yeah, for sure.
But I’m excited to be here and great to talk to you today.
Thank you so much for coming.
I really appreciate it.
You have a hugely busy schedule I’m sure, but this is great.
So we’re going to get to the point and let you know our listeners.
Really get as much information as they can from you.
So OK, I gave a high level overview of your bio, but to pare down on that, what do you think was maybe one of the most transitional, maybe pieces of information or action that you took that transitioned you from what you were doing before to what you’re doing now? I mean, there are certainly a lot of steps that led to that transition.
So I think anytime you’re making those big changes, there are multiple things that come into play.
But to give you one, you know, I attended.
A lot of events and spent a lot of time surrounding myself with other investors.
And in particular, there was one investor who led one of the events and I watched that investor go from a small portfolio, literally from three units to 9 units.
But then shortly after they went from 9 units to 90 units.
And that just, I mean, it was all inspiring.
I didn’t understand it.
I couldn’t fathom it.
It didn’t make any sense to me.
I mean, the first month I just assumed she must have came under like big inheritance.
Like or something like that.
Like, I don’t know how else you would be able to grow like that.
And finally I had to ask and I said, hey, you know, I’d love to just sit down and learn how you did this.
And I did that.
And I think that was really pivotal because, one, you don’t get a chance to watch people grow right in front of you.
But then two, to ask them directly, hey, how did you do it? And to have them explain exactly what they did made it real for me and it made it achievable and attainable for me.
And that really changed the way I thought.
About real estate investing and how much we could scale and grow because up to that point, I was just saving my money.
And then once we had enough money to buy a property, we would go out and look and see if we could find something.
But you know, when I listen to how this person was able to grow their portfolio, it really allowed me to open up my thinking.
OK, so now two questions from that.
First one, what made you even look at real estate? Like what led you to that real estate event or seminar? Well, I read rich Dad, poor dad, like a lot of listeners, right? It was a great book.
It helped me think about.
Many people talk about how important real estate is in book, and it absolutely is.
But there’s actually something else that stood out to me in the book that I remember distinctly.
And there’s a part where he talks about you should work a job for skills, not just for salary.
And when you think about that, I was in corporate America doing advertising and marketing.
I was at General Motors and I was there from 2007 to 2011, so around late 2008 or really the middle of 2008.
The market started to shift for our company.
And in particular, I remember having our senior leadership, you know, vice president of finance, people I never spoke to reaching out saying, hey, did you sign that contract? If you didn’t, don’t sign it.
I’m like, but I’ve already told them that we’re going to renew the agreement we’re going to sign next week.
You’re not signing it.
I’m like, I’m sorry, you can’t just tell me I’m not signing it.
You don’t have that authority.
They just flat out told me don’t sign it.
And I remember just like, not knowing what was going on, It was the craziest thing I’ve ever seen.
And in short.
Over the next few weeks, it started trickle out that, you know, there are some financial issues that were really kicking in and ultimately, you know, we were going to have to go into bankruptcy.
And I remember just how anxious it made everybody in the company and watching your boss on CNN and and Fox News and MSNBC and just not having any control over anything and just literally waiting to see what was going to happen.
And I remember feeling powerless and I watched a lot of my colleagues lose their jobs.
We had multiple rounds of layoffs and in particular.
One person, they have been there for 22 years and you know they plan on being there until they retire and just got pulled from underneath their feet.
And I remember that moment of really a moment of clarity for me because I just realized you cannot depend on a W2 job.
And I thought back to the book about building skills, getting stronger those skills, but then also having other means of income so you’re not solely relying on a W2 job.
And that went from an idea, great concept in a book.
Be like ohh crap like this is what happens when you don’t implement this or this could happen.
And I made it a mission at that point to seek out how to start investing in real estate and it took some time.
I mean that was 2009, I think when I got seriously interested.
But we didn’t buy our first property to 2012, partially because I was still in Detroit and the market was, you know, rough and anyone I knew who had real estate was trying to sell it at a fire sale.
So it was tough to get in at that point.
I was, you know, new and didn’t know what I didn’t know.
But when I moved to Chicago.
That made me more comfortable to invest.
And I spent the first, like, you know, nine months trying to just get the lay of the land, figuring out, you know, side of town, different neighborhoods, where the valuation should be, what should be getting rents.
And then I was able to finally buy a duplex.
Ohh, OK And you know what’s so funny? Because you did invest in Detroit because you lived there and you knew what the state of the city was.
And I actually invested in Detroit from New York for the first time in like 2012, 2013.
So right at the tail end of like when you moved and bought your property and that didn’t really turn out well.
And I think that you probably already know, but that was with a big group.
So we all came together and we picked Detroit because prices were so.
Inexpensive, especially at like, tax auctions.
So the other part of what you’re beginning story that I actually had another question on was who was this woman because you said she and what was it that she explained to you how she scaled from 9 to 90 so quickly? Yes, the woman’s Bree Schmidt, who was actually my partner for the Midwest Real Estate Networking Summit, I got to know Brie and she was one of the first investors that I, you know, met in person and actually got to know and watched them build their portfolios.
So I think the key for me.
Was just seeing someone actually grow because most people, you go to networking events, right? You go to a meet up and no knock, everyone’s in the same boat or similar boat, right.
So somebody‘s got a 2 unit, this person got a three unit and a lot of people are kind of starting out and then they don’t come back.
You know, you go six months or you go straight for three or four months and that person you were talking to, they don’t come back or they come like once a year or twice a year and they’re not committed.
And she was hosting the event and as the host of the event she was there every month.
So as I showed up.
Pretty much every month.
She was there every month.
And literally, I mean, there might be a handful of people who are regulars, right? And obviously she and I were one of them.
So we were able to kind of build a relationship to just talk and get to know each other a bit more.
And like I said, over that time, as you talk to somebody for a year and you watch them kind of really scale that portfolio, it opens up your eyes and there is a comfort level to be able to ask them, hey, you know, would you mind sitting down and talking to me more about what you did? What she told me was really something as simple that I think you understand now.
But back to me, it was a foreign concept and it was being able to partner with other people.
And bring on investors.
If you can do that now, you’re no longer limited with the capital you have.
And at first I was really hesitant to take that approach.
I didn’t want to be responsible for other people’s money.
I didn’t want to ask people to invest.
I didn’t want to be like a salesman.
It just didn’t feel good to me.
What really changed for me was I realized as I shared my story and journey and thought back to all those people came to those meetups, but disappeared and never came again.
Well, the reason is it’s a lot of work.
And most people just quite frankly, don’t have the time or the energy to commit to the amount of work it takes to find deals, analyze deals, get them under contract, manage those deals and operate.
So as I talk to my friends and people who are watching us with our house and our home and other properties, and they’re asking questions like, oh, here’s how you do it, but you know, I’m giving them the same gang, giving them the same advice.
They do nothing with it.
And finally it just dawned on me.
That they need an easy way to invest.
I mean, we’re talking about busy professionals, young parents, young entrepreneurs.
You got a lot of responsibilities as it is, you know, and trying to go out there and learn a whole new industry like real estate, it’s complex for a lot of people.
And most people just don’t have that kind of passion and drive.
They don’t have the scars that I had.
You know, they didn’t grow up, you know, with those same scars and they didn’t see it all get threatened from them.
And to give context to that, I’m a first generation college student, right.
Wouldn’t I mean talking to graduate student so yet alone graduate yet alone corporate America white collar job So when I watched my colleagues losing their jobs, to me it’s like hey, this is what they told us we had to do to be successful.
I’ve done everything that I was asked to me.
I went to school, I got good grades, I graduated, did the internship, I got the career.
And these people who look like me are doing the same thing.
And now they have no idea how they going to feed their family.
And that was wild to me.
And I was like, I didn’t come this far, just to come this far.
So at that point, it was like, we gotta figure out another plan.
So I realized, you know, everybody doesn’t have that, They don’t have that baggage, and it’s fine.
But that was my motivation.
That was the drive.
And finally I realized that I could help these people in my life by simply finding these opportunities and bringing them alongside me.
In order to do that, I needed to kind of shore up the areas where I was still growing.
And that’s why mentorship was so key for me and bringing on somebody who could help guide me through that process, because I’ve never raised money for real estate before.
Wow, You know what?Like the lady who was Bree who was heading up that first meet up that you went to that group.
She was like an unofficial mentor that kind of just started there and got you gave you the information that you needed to be able to see a different picture and change your frame of reference.
And like you said, you were hesitant to that at first, like partnering wasn’t something that you were comfortable with.
And I think that’s a mindset that a lot of people have that they don’t want to partner because they shouldn’t trust anybody.
It’s like a trust issue and then also like being responsible for somebody‘s money.
And all of those things are, I guess, limiting beliefs that keep people from accelerating as fast as they could.
But and it’s not like you just go out and partner with anybody.
You have to be strategic with it.
You have to get to know the person.
It’s all about relationships.
But the fact that you look out for that and you have that open mindset that you’re able to, you know, consider partnership as a strategic method to growth, then I think that will help a lot of people with whatever their journey is.
So you started with two units.
What does that look like now? Where are you now? Well, I mean we’ve partnered with other investors to invest in over 1000 unitsto date.
So we continue to scale that portfolio and our business model has shifted drastically from you know, when I was just my wife and I just running out and looking for properties and adding it and adding it to our portfolio and buying with our money.
So now we partner with other people, so we work with those busy professionals and give them opportunities to look at deals and opportunities that we have and then partner with us.
So we don’t have you know, 100% ofthe deals.
But it’s better because we can always go out there and look for opportunities and we’re not limited by the amount of money we got in our bank account on any given day.
Yeah, OK, that’s perfect.
So you started in the corporate area and you transitioned into learning about real estate, getting started with real estate, trying to do it on your own and your mindset got shifted from your unofficial mentor into partnering.
And now you’ve grown your portfolio in scaled to 1000 , unitspartnered with other people, which is that’s fantastic.
One of the things, the premises of this show is to really show people how to grow and protect their money and their capital and to be able to leave a legacy for either their kids or whoever else they want to make an impact on.
So how have you set up either any equity or net worth or when you’re passing on like your estate to your airs, what strategies or vehicles have you used to kind of protect what you’ve built? Yeah.
So I think there are a couple ways to look at that.
So the first part of this is?Understanding that every investment has risk is just you’re not going to find a great way to grow your portfolio and grow your income without taking some level of risk.
So how do you mitigate those risk? One way to do that is not solely rely on the stock market, you know, diversify your investments.
The reason we like real estate so much and in particular commercial apartment buildings is because they are secured assets.
What I mean by secured is they’re backed by the building, you know they’re backed by the.
Actual physical property that will always have value.
You know, even if a building burned down, the land itself has value.
There’s insurance policies that you put on these properties to protect yourself.
There are things that you can do to make sure you protect those investments themselves.
When we invest in these deals, we like cash flowing properties.
So I like properties that are already there.
They exist the day we buy them.
People live in them the day we buy them and they’re already generating a profit.
Now they may not be generating the maximum.
If they could generate, but there’s enough money coming in to pay all the bills and if we can buy property like that and then we come in with the business plan and say, OK, how can we increase profits Fifteen, 2025%, whatever that is, that’s the way we like to invest because to us that’s how we mitigate those risk, right.
We’re actually buying an existing business and figuring out how do we increase the operational output.
So that is how we, you know, mitigate our risk on the investment side of it.
We also like to force appreciation is what we call it.
But essentially what we’re saying is we don’t want to just buy something and hope the market does well for the next five years.
We want to buy something with a very specific business plan in mind where we can generate profits and extract more value immediately.
And by immediately, I mean within the first year or two, you know we want to be able to go in and do something.
It typically that’s going to be like renovating units or changing out maybe some water things, we can reduce the water bill or maybe moving some other utilities around where maybe residents are paying for some of the utilities.
So stuff like that that we can go in and boost the operational performance.
So that’s the business of what we do now.
We talk about how do we protect the equity that we’ve created.
We do that a couple different ways.
So on the property side of it, you want to make sure that you control the exit.
You know you want to sell when it makes sense for you to sell.
They’re different strategies you can employ to do that, but that’s one way you approach it.
The other thing is from a personal standpoint, you want to make sure you have the right assurance for yourself, the right life insurance.
And you should talk to your advisor so you understand your current situation.
But as you learn more and more, you’ll understand that there are more strategies that are open to you than maybe even your financial advisors aware of.
Even your life insurance agent might not be aware of some of these things or maybe they’re just not in a position to offer up some of these products to you.
Sort of things like that, that you can tap into.
And then you can also do something that’s really cool and easy, which is creating LLC to hold all of your assets that way as you grow your portfolio or you.
Buy something new or whatever happens, you just put it under that LLC.
So I mean, you got small kids, I got small kids.
The worst thing that could happen is, you know, we get wiped out before these kids come of age and really understand what to do.
And all of our assets and belongings go into probate.
So if you can have a will and make sure that all of your assets are under an LLC, well, if that’s the case, then as long as that LLC goes to the appropriate airs, then all that will be.
Directly identify correctly as opposed to you on this piece of property.
It’s not in the will because you bought it, you know, two months ago and it wasn’t in the will, you didn’t update it and now there’s going to go to probate and everyone’s going to know that it’s there.
And even if it goes directly to the kids, they still have to claim it in court.
And then you might have a cousin or an uncle or some other people who you know want to ask them for money.
And again, I don’t know how your family situation is, but you know, try to protect your family and set them up as much as possible.
That’s great advice and actually I have been working on even putting that LLC into a trust so that you can avoid probate.
That’s not a financial advice, talk to your advisor.
But yeah, that is an option in a vehicle that I think a lot of people think they have to have, you know be a multi millionaire in order to employ a trust as a vehicle when you really don’t have to.
So that’s fantastic, great information so far.
If people let’s say they decide that being active in real estate like you said.
There’s a lot of work and it’s too much for them to handle and to take on because there is a lot, you know, a lot of education that goes behind that and a lot of the scars you said you have to go through.
How do people get started? Like what is syndication and how do people get started in that? And how do you, what is expected of them if they invest in a property through a syndication? Yeah, I mean, syndication at its simplest level is just group investing, right? It’s a group of people that come together.
You pull your capital together so you can go out and buy a property.
Now with syndication, what makes it cool is everyone doesn’t have to get together and know everyone.
So you have a league team, which is your general partnership team and then they have those relationships where they reach out to other investors.
They demonstrate what they can do.
They have a track record, they show the deal with their business plan is and then you decide whether or not you want to invest.
So as a limited partner, which is the role you would have as an investor, it’s called a limited partner.
So as a limited partner, really it’s turnkey.
Once you decide to invest the work you have to do as a limited partners up front, you want to make sure you understand who the general partnership team is.
Who are you working with? What’s their experience? What’s their track record? How comfortable do you feel with them? You know, how aggressive or conservative are they when they’re looking at opportunities? It’s really get a sense of who they are and how they operate.
Once you understand that, the next thing is to understand the markets.
So what market is the property in? What’s going on in that market? You mentioned Detroit.
It could be whatever you want it to be.
For me, it doesn’t work as a market because our market criteria is pretty set.
But there are people who are crushing Detroit at the time you bought, if I would have waited out another year or two.
It would have been a great time to buy in Detroit, you know, 2011, 2012, 2013, It was a great time to buy, but you had to have the right business plan.
And if you don’t have the right business plan, it doesn’t matter.
Like it doesn’t matter where you buy because you can have a bad market and a great business plan.
If you execute, you can do extremely well.
But you have to understand the market dynamics.
You know, you can’t go invest in a city like Detroit, just like it’s LA and expect to get the same results.
You have to have nuances to your approach and put the plan together based on that market.
So those are things you’re looking at to understand the market and then finally you want to make sure that you understand the deal.
And you want to understand where the business plan is, what are the concerns you have, How could the deal go wrong? And that’s a question I would ask, hey, what could go wrong in this deal? You know, what are some serious things that you’re gonna have to mitigate and that’ll give you a better sense of, you know, whether or not it’s the right opportunity for you.
The last thing I would say is just make sure you know what you’re investing goal is.
You know these deals are typically a three to seven-year hold period.
So it’s not going to be a get in and get out kind of situation.
If you want to get your money back in 6 to 12 months, I would highly advise.
Against investing in a real estate syndication, they’re liquid assets.
They do take some time for the market to come around.
It takes something that’s a bit more patient.
But if you’re looking at long term wealth creation then these are great vehicles like you said earlier in the show, you get cash flow appreciation potential, you get to leverage what the debt you get some phenomenal tax benefits.
There are a lot of things that make this really attractive for everyday professionals, particularly if you know that real estate can work for you but you just don’t have the time to go out there and try to find.
Manage your own deals.
Wait, wait, don’t go yet.
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Now let’s finish up the show.
Yeah, that’s perfect.
That’s great advice.
So basically wrapping that up, if you want to be passive because you can’t, you know you don’t have the time or energy or commitment to do it on the active side.
You just need to let your operators make sure they’re good.
You have to vet the market, make sure you agree with what’s happening in that market, and you have to know your own investment criteria.
What are you looking to achieve in the time frame?So creating that plan and just when you’re networking and meeting with people, you can get a feel and ask people you know about investing criteria, you can see what other people’s investing criteria and kind of help you formulate your own if you don’t really know right now, that was great.
So actually we’re leading into our final 2.
Warren Buffett said that diversification is a protection against ignorance.
I kind of take that to mean that basically people diversify because they don’t know what they’re doing, so they just try to put.
A little bit in everything, but what’s your take on that?Well, I get the point of it.
I guess The thing is, is you can’t be an expert at everything.
And even if you’re an expert in, let’s say, multifamily investing, you don’t get to control things like the interest rates or economy or wars or pandemics.
So I think diversification is a way to spread out risk.
If you are absolutely trying to make the best return possible, your best bet is to put everything in one basket and watch that one basket.
But I think for most people, the better.
Strategy is to diversify.
That way you have some flexibility in case the market does take a shift.
Second question, have you played monopoly before? I’ve played Monopoly all the time.
OK, so in your monopoly when the game take all strategy Boardwalk or Baltic Ave.
Why so Baltic? Is the second purple one right? To answer your question, you only have to be right a couple of times on boardwalk.
It went, I mean, you gotta hit Baltic, you gotta hit that thing probably 10 times to get the same returns you would get on Boardwalk, even though the cost is much higher.
Now what I would tell you is actually that’s not the strategy I use and if I replay you a monopoly, don’t use my skills my what I’m telling you against me.
I actually really like to shoot for that second row.
So the first row is like the purple and the light blue and then the 2nd row is the orange and yellow.
I think there’s the red, red and yellows.
There’s the green, No, green is there.
So I don’t know wherever Saint Charles place is the same role as the orange ones.
Yes, that’s my role, OK, because that is my B class properties.
So for the listeners, right, that’s like C + B minus properties.
But The thing is, is like there’s a great balance of cash flow and appreciation potential.
I wouldn’t talk like this as a 7 year old plan, but as a, you know, a mature man, that’s the way I look at it.
But it’s a great balance of cash flow, you know, and then people hit it often, right.
You get to the free parking, you know, the chance cars start to kick in and people get to skip over your properties and all of that.
But that second row, you pretty much can’t avoid it.
So it’s better cash returns.
If you could own that row, you can do really well there.
All right, You know what? You’re the first one to actually go in more depth to your actual strategy.
So now I’m going to take that.
I need to play my husband or somebody.
The best thing is that corner.
If you could get the orange and the red, We’re Kentucky, and the red ones are only red.
And then the orange ones right there, right around the free space, that free parking you can clean up.
And you’ve actually invested in Kentucky too, right? I did, yeah.
Nothing to do with Monopoly, though, yes.
Correlated, I feel like, OK, this was great.
Thank you so much.
John, how can listeners get in touch with you if they wanted to reach out, learn more? Like, I know you actually help with active investment, people who want to learn that.
And then you also offer opportunities for passive investing too.
So no matter what side of the point people are on, they could reach out to you for either, right? Absolutely.
So I think that the easiest thing is this.
If you got value out of this show, first of all leave Nicole rating and review.
I’m sure she’d love it.
Be sure to subscribe to this show.
Two ways to reach out to me, one check.
My show is called Multifamily Insights.
It’s available anywhere you listen to podcasts.
We are 400 episodes stronger, just about 400 episodes strong by the time this comes out.
Super excited for that.
And then the second is we actually have a free sample deal package available.
If you want to be active, you want to be passive, but you want to understand like, hey, what should I be looking at? You know, what are some of these terms? What should I be conveying to people? What do I need to understand? Check out the sample deal package.
It’s a great way to start getting your head around what you should be thinking about when you’re looking at a deal or looking at an opportunity.
And I think it’s very helpful we breakdown some follow up emails to give you a sense of hey here, the things that are really important that you want to look at so you can start getting more comfortable with it.
I just think it’s better doing it that way then when you have a real live opportunity but you don’t know the questions that you should have asked earlier in the process.
So check out the sample deal, you can get that at chasmancapital.
And John is so modest.
His multifamily insights is like a mega superstar in the podcasting.
World Super modest.
So thank you for being on here with me today.
I really appreciate it and I know you left so many gems for the listeners and everyone, thank you so much for joining us today and we will see you next time.
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