Episode No. 16

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Episode No. 16

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We’ve talked about financial wealth but, in this episode, we’re putting the focus on mental wealth. Now more than ever, in these uncertain times, we all need to know how to take care of ourselves. 

Rich Jones sits down with us today to share his story of healing and shifting into a more holistic lifestyle. From personal finance advice, he also talks about centering his work more on holistic wellness, which he believes is essential to our physical and mental health.

Rich is the host of The Mental Wealth Show and Executive Editor of Find More Balance, a multimedia platform dedicated to holistic wellness for high performers. He’s also a master’s track and field athlete competing around the country in the long jump. By day, Rich works in Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion at Google. 



[00:01 – 09:47] Who is Rich Jones? 

  • His season of healing and going back to being a track and field athlete
  • Seeking holistic wellness and helping others to know about it
  • Rich explains the benefits of ice baths


[09:48 – 31:45] Going Through a Holistic Journey

  • How Rich is using his credit cards to fit his lifestyle
  • Effectively accumulating points
  • Taking a mental health leave from his job and learning about his CPTSD
  • Building his support system and how it helped him with his struggles, especially with alcohol
  • Getting to the root of his issues with EDMR therapy
  • It’s never about what’s happening in the moment
  • Shifting from Paychecks & Balances to Find More Balance
  • Personal finance is still important but it’s about looking at a bigger picture
  • Being able to speak publicly about his problems is a testament that therapy and self-care works
  • Why you need to find time for yourself


[31:46 – 39:11] Closing Segment

  • The final 2 questions
  • Rich on diversification: Take a pause when you need to and don’t do too much at the same time
  • Connect with Rich!



Key Quotes 


“I’ve really been learning through this holistic journey how to create a lifestyle that works for me. And that allows me to achieve more of what I want in life while also still having financial freedom and not creating debt for myself.” – Rich Jones


“When we get triggered, it’s never about that thing that’s happening in the moment. It’s about something that was encoded and embedded a long, long time ago.” – Rich Jones


“There has to be some time that like, you carve out that’s just for you and once you get consistent about it, you train everybody else around you that like that time as you.” – Rich Jones


Connect with Rich Jones! Follow him on LinkedIn, Instagram, and Twitter. Head over to the Paychecks & Balances website and the Find More Balance website to know more about the work he does.


Let’s get connected! 

You can find Nicole on LinkedIn, Instagram, or Facebook. Visit her website https://noirvestholdings.com


[00:00:00] Rich Jones: When we get triggered, it’s never about that thing that’s happening in the moment. I even said this about like the whole Will Smith slap. I know everyone’s putting all their stuff on that, but it’s never about like, what’s actually happening in that moment. It’s about something that was encoded and embedded a long, long time ago. And so with EMDR, it’s helping you access that like much, much earlier thing that is at the root of why you’re getting triggered.

[00:00:20] Nicole Pendergrass: Hi, everyone. Welcome back again for another episode of the Share The Wealth Show. This is a show where we discuss strategies to build, grow, and protect minority wealth. One facet of wealth that we have not discussed yet is mental wealth. And I know our expert today, Mr. Rich Jones is going to dig in on that with us.

[00:01:12] Nicole Pendergrass: But he does have some personal finance experience and expertise as well that we’ll, we’ll dig into. But Rich is the host of The Mental Wealth Show and executive editor of Find More Balance, which is a multimedia platform dedicated to holistic wellness for high performers.

[00:01:31] Nicole Pendergrass: He’s also a master’s track and field athlete competing around the country in long jump. By day, Rich works in diversity, equity, and inclusion at Google. Welcome, Rich, thank you so much for joining us. And I have to say to Richard’s an old colleague of mine, and I guess that’s not really colleague is that we went to undergrad together.

[00:01:52] Rich Jones: Yeah, an old classmate, old classmate. You know what, we weren’t on the same class. We were schoolmates.

[00:02:01] Nicole Pendergrass: Schoolmates, college mates, however, you say, but yeah, so, we follow each other on social media so I’ve seen a lot of what he’s doing and when I decided to launch the show, I said, you know what? Rich would be the perfect person to have on here to definitely bring a different perspective into the types of guests that I have been having so far.

[00:02:23] Nicole Pendergrass: But I’ll let you just go ahead. Rich, tell us a little bit about your journey. Tell us about how you, what made you decide to start Paychecks & Balances, what that was about and your transition to what you’re doing now.

[00:02:33] Rich Jones: Yeah, first off, thanks for having me on the podcast. I’ve been in just a huge season of healing, a season of change.

[00:02:43] Rich Jones: It’s just been busy in the best way possible, but also in the most challenging way possible. I’m sure we’ll talk about that a little bit, but I’m a podcast host, producer, strategist. That’s what I do outside of my day job, but I’m not working in DEI and yeah, I became a master’s track and field athlete again.

[00:03:04] Rich Jones: And I say again, because in college I ran track and I ran till about 2007 and then life started getting in the way. I fell into some cycles that, you know, over a decade later, I was finally able to break. And I decided after I had quit alcohol a year before, so that was July 1st, 2020. I decided on July 1, 2020, you know what?

[00:03:25] Rich Jones: I’ve reclaimed this freedom in my life. I’ve broken this just generational cycle. I’ve thought about track and field every day, essentially of my life. And I never thought I’d be able to do it again, but here I am with the space to finally train and to also have the financial resources, to be able to train and do this at the level that I’m doing it now.

[00:03:45] Rich Jones: Because I’m realizing a lot of the personal finance lessons are coming into play when I think about, you know, the money and how I’m going about traveling. I’m not someone who hates credit cards. I am getting these points. I am paying the balance in full every month, but you know, I, so I’m getting that three X points for travel.

[00:04:02] Rich Jones: I’m getting the three X points for business ad spend. So, I’ve really been learning through this holistic journey how to create a lifestyle that works for me. And that allows me to achieve more of what I want in life while also still having financial freedom and not creating debt for myself.

[00:04:18] Nicole Pendergrass: Yeah. Oh, so I definitely wanted to interject into there before you continue with your story, because one, I’ve seen your recent video posts with your, you’re doing some of your long jumps and practicing and things.

[00:04:29] Nicole Pendergrass: And, people, he’s not too shabby for taking 10 years off. He’s actually doing really well. You know, I’m super impressed because, you know, I used to be in shape. I guess I still am a little bit, but I’m definitely not doing the same kind of things that I was able to do even five years. So, congrats to that. Congrats to that. That’s super impressive.

[00:04:49] Rich Jones: Yeah. Yeah. And here’s the thing with that. I mean, I was off basically almost 15 years and I shocked myself. And the thing is like muscle memory, like the muscle memory came in. Pretty fast. It was a matter of a lot of the stuff that I used to neglect before, I can’t neglect that now because I’m a lot older. So like all of the core work, and this is even just a metaphor for life and the journey I’ve been on too. Just like the, the core strengthening. ‘Cause I had a point where I kept straining my lower back and it’s because all of the surrounding muscles weren’t weak.

[00:05:21] Rich Jones: So I’ve been learning like how to just optimize everything considering my age, considering that I have a lot less time while also having a lot more responsibility. And this, this track and field journey is part of how I came to the realization to go from Paychecks & Balances, which was more heavily focused on personal finance and career advice to talking more about holistic wellness, because I’ve seen what, following good advice and taking good actions financially and professionally.

[00:05:52] Rich Jones: Has done for my satisfaction, not just in terms of dollar amounts and job titles, but also the things that I’m able to have in my life. And if I didn’t make some of these decisions along the way, particularly while I was learning a lot from the guests that we were having on the podcast. So I never got into personal finance, wanting to be an expert.

[00:06:09] Rich Jones: My thing was just to share my experience, share my mistakes and hope that a younger version of me doesn’t make the same mistakes. And so, I feel like right now, this is pretty much just the evolution of that, where I went from talking about personal finance and career, specifically, to quitting alcohol and getting back into track and learning about cryotherapy and getting back into ice baths and all of these different health and healing modalities that people need to be put on to.

[00:06:35] Rich Jones: Like, there’s a lot of stuff out there that we need that we don’t know that we need. And so I’m trying to put more people on to that.

[00:06:41] Nicole Pendergrass: You know what, that’s almost the same revelation and reason that I started this podcast because there’s so many strategies out there that we don’t realize we should be implementing upfront. And even on the financial side to give us the freedom, to explore these other things in our life and have a holistic life.

[00:06:56] Nicole Pendergrass: Because if you’re worried about paying all the bills, if you don’t have certain things lined up, you could be a high earner and still be living paycheck to paycheck, because you’re not managing your finances responsibly and not building up something like a legacy for your kids or your family, whoever you want to leave something for.

[00:07:13] Nicole Pendergrass: And so to even encompass that, you know, mental wellness is extremely important, but you also have to have that freedom to even be able to not stress about the money. Right? Like, does that make sense? You know, so that’s part of why I started this as well. And so, okay. Oh my goodness. You said so much already that I want to dig into.

[00:07:32] Nicole Pendergrass: I don’t know which way I should go first. Cause you said ice bath, as soon as you said ice bath, I cringed. I know I’ve heard about it so many times how beneficial it is. I don’t know all the details of benefits, but I just shut off. As soon as you say ice bath, I just see myself doing it. So really quick touch on why people should do ice baths.

[00:07:52] Rich Jones: For me, it’s really about increasing circulation, getting the bad stuff out of the muscles, getting fresh blood and oxygen in. That’s really the gist of what it is for me. And then also when the skin gets below certain temperatures, there’s endorphins and other chemicals that are released that make you feel good.

[00:08:09] Rich Jones: And so like, for me, it’s a big part of my recovery routine. Just given like how much pound I’m putting on my joints and my muscle just given like how much I’m jumping when I’m out on the track.

[00:08:19] Nicole Pendergrass: Okay. Because the science and me automatically, because I know it’s supposed to increase circulation.

[00:08:25] Nicole Pendergrass: ‘Cause to me, heat makes things more active and move faster. So to me, in my head with the science, I’m thinking heat would make your circulation go faster, but cold also makes your circulation go faster.

[00:08:36] Rich Jones: Yeah. I mean, well, so there, there’s the reduction in inflammation, which is probably the first thing, which is, which is why most people think of cold therapy.

[00:08:44] Rich Jones: But the other part that I didn’t mention is usually when I do ice baths or cold plunges, I’ll usually do a sauna beforehand. This sounds real bougie, but yeah, I care about my wellness. And so I’ll do like a, a sauna for like half an hour, you know, get warmed up, sweat it out, and then I’ll switch over to the cold plunge and sometimes like, I’ll go like back and forth. So that’s like, that’s more of the circulation and this is stuff that like, I’ve just learned from like years of just like training and also in the process of becoming a certified wellness coach right now, I might even be one by the time this episode is out.

[00:09:17] Rich Jones: So like I’m still trying things out and figuring out like what actually works and what’s a myth and what might just be a placebo effect.

[00:09:25] Nicole Pendergrass: Okay. Yeah. That, that going back and forth even sounds more painful than just the cold bath by itself. But you know, you are trying it and I am not. So you have the evidence and I always say, go with the people who are actually doing the thing and not like somebody who’s talking about it.

[00:09:41] Nicole Pendergrass: So when it comes to cold baths and saunas and interchanging, listen to Rich because he’s done it don’t listen to me ’cause I haven’t. Yeah. Another thing you mentioned, I want to dig into kind of the timeline of what you were going through. So I know you started with Paychecks & Balances, and you mentioned something about the credit cards and using the credit cards for points for paying them off in full every month.

[00:10:01] Nicole Pendergrass: Can you touch on that as like a financial strategy? And what other strategies have you learned throughout your tenure running Paychecks & Balances? So I know me and my husband actually just opened credit cards to start doing our monthly expenses and paying that off in full. So we just set that up.

[00:10:16] Rich Jones: Yeah. Yeah. It’s been kinda crazy cause I’m starting to shift things around and it’s, life in general, we kind of move in cycles where, whether it’s every year we evaluate how we’re doing things or every few years we’re evaluating how we’re doing things. But as far as the credit card side of things, it took a few years of running the business before I was comfortable to get one.

[00:10:36] Rich Jones: I want to say I’ve had it for probably about a year now. And it’s one of the Chase cards off the, pull it out to get the name off of it. But for me, there’s the Chase Sapphire Reserve, which is my personal credit card, which I do know off the top because I’m using that one every day and it matches my lifestyle.

[00:10:52] Rich Jones: What some people can’t get over with this particular card is that it comes with and well, it used to be a $400 fee. Now it’s like a $500 fee, but when you get like the annual $300 travel credit and you take advantage of some of the other perks and benefits, which for me, aren’t a stretch because they’re naturally part of my lifestyle, I’m getting three X points for doing things that I would naturally do.

[00:11:16] Rich Jones: So it’s not like I’m spending money that I wouldn’t normally spend to try to get points, which I think is the mistake that some people make as they start trying to find reasons to spend money, to accumulate the points where I’m just spending on things that I would normally spend on. And then just paying that in full at the end of the month.

[00:11:32] Rich Jones: That’s how I handled the personal side of it on the business side of it. It’s very similar where I’m paying in full every month, but things like, you know, getting three X points on ad spend dollars or social media advertising, which were things that I was using pretty extensively in my business.

[00:11:49] Rich Jones: It made sense to have that being able to get three X on travel for any business trips, conferences, things like that. And it was also helpful to have a credit card that was like the one place for all of the business expenses, as opposed to having them spread across multiple cards, which I remember when I first started out, I had like an account with, within my personal account that was like my separate business account.

[00:12:12] Rich Jones: And it was a few years before I realized that wasn’t the way to go about it. So for each card, they both fit my lifestyle and I’m just getting like double up points on each of them. I probably got the equivalent of two roundtrip flights right now, like good round trips. I’m not talking about from San Fran to Seattle, I’m talking about like two good roundtrip flights.

[00:12:33] Rich Jones: And that’s just from doing what I would naturally do, but also having the rigor to make sure that I’m paying it in full every month.

[00:12:39] Nicole Pendergrass: That’s great. And that’s one thing I haven’t done with my business expenses yet. So I do have business expenses on a credit card to help build credit, and makes you pay it off in full every month or you can do weekly or however often you want to pay it in full and you get a certain amount of benefits or points. I have to check again on that. But that’s just one card and I haven’t really transferred. I transferred some recurring expenses there, but I don’t use everything for that.

[00:13:02] Nicole Pendergrass: I need to find that one good card and use that to help with my points and to build the business credit as I’m paying it off.

[00:13:09] Rich Jones: Yeah, yeah. Well, and you just made me, you made me think of something else too, what is this other card that I have?

[00:13:14] Rich Jones: And it’s the Chase Business Preferred Ink. And I am not an endorser or affiliate for any of these cards. I mentioned this because they’re both chase cards. And so the points I can transfer across because they’re both within the same network.

[00:13:27] Nicole Pendergrass: So, even for your personal and business card, because with Chase, you could transfer them all? Oh, that’s good.

[00:13:33] Rich Jones: And so what’s also, what also might be unique for me is that like, this is all, like, the business I’m talking about is, like, my side hustle. So I’m still a W-2 by day. I don’t have any W-2 employees. And I understand when you, when you have like some of those additional overhead expenses that kind of changes the picture a little bit.

[00:13:51] Rich Jones: So I want to acknowledge that I probably do have a little bit more freedom in terms of how I’m doing this, because I do have my finances primarily covered by my day job.

[00:13:58] Nicole Pendergrass: All right. So if you have your day job, so, I know you are not an advocate of the ethos that you have to, like, everyone should be an entrepreneur and you need to quit your job. Like, I, I know I saw your post about that. And I do believe that it’s definitely up to the individual and what you’re doing and what your goals, what you want to achieve in life, what effect and impact you think you’re having with your W-2, you want to keep that. You’re in diversity equity and inclusion. So that to me already sounds like very meaningful, like that has purpose behind it. Do you ever plan to eventually need that position or how does that fit in your overall what you’re doing with your side hustles?

[00:14:38] Rich Jones: I can’t believe you asked such a fantastic setup question.

[00:14:43] Nicole Pendergrass: Nobody at your job is going to hear, nobody. Just us in here. Go ahead.

[00:14:48] Rich Jones: So, that’s the thing. I almost did leave. So I work in retention and progression. Our team is now called Stay and Thrive. I’m not officially speaking on behalf of the company, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

[00:14:57] Rich Jones: But I’m essentially kind of like an internal career coach slash advocate for folks who are experiencing the workplace differently, which is most commonly black, brown folks who look like us, also in indigenous. So, it is the most values-driven role and meaningful role that I’ve ever had in my career, but it is also the most emotionally draining role that I’ve had in my career.

[00:15:21] Rich Jones: And then that makes sense, right? Like something that is highly meaningful is also going to be draining, even if you’re deeply passionate. And I got to a point after a first, my first few months in this role where I started having panic attacks. Basic tasks, like sending emails and following up became really difficult.

[00:15:39] Rich Jones: And I ended up having to take a mental health leave at the beginning of September or rather I chose to take a mental health leave. I felt empowered by those around me to take one, which I’m also thankful for ’cause you, you don’t see that in every work environment. And I ended up being out from September through November, through end of November. And I thought about leaving. And during this leave, that’s when I learned that, you know, I’ve been living with CPTSD even back while I was at school, like all this time, everyone who’s known, like, I’ve had CPTSD this whole freaking time. And just thinking about like what that meant for old habits.

[00:16:14] Rich Jones: So like, that’s why I open and say, like, I’ve been on this journey of exploration and healing, it’s like, I’ve been unpacking a lot. But I got to a point on the leave where I went, onsite on campus because Google was,like, that is basically a campus. I went onsite for a doctor’s appointment, then I left the doctor’s appointment. And then I said, let me stop by the gym upstairs. And I said, oh, the gym has everything I need for my track and field training. And then I stopped in the cafeteria on the way out. And I was like, oh, healthy meals. And I had this realization of like, yo, why would I leave?

[00:16:48] Rich Jones: My job is actually helping me achieve a life goal. And I realized that the reason that I wanted to leave, it actually had nothing to do with the job itself. It was all of that deeper internal work that I hadn’t yet done that I needed to do on myself. And so once I started figuring some of that out, it was like, yo, like, you know, like the structure I’ve also got like ADHD symptoms going on.

[00:17:07] Rich Jones: So it’s like the structure I’m like, I like this structure. I like that I can kind of figure out how the game is played and I don’t have to rely on the strangers and the internet and follows and likes and things like that. I enjoy that, but I also enjoy having this, and I enjoy being able to, you know, have vacation days and things like this, so I can travel and compete.

[00:17:26] Rich Jones: Once I had that space and that was the most important part, like once I had that space, it was a no-brainer, but I couldn’t have come to that conclusion if I didn’t take that three months off.

[00:17:37] Nicole Pendergrass: Okay. So how did you go about that process of doing that deep internal work? Because that’s that easy, you know, looking in the mirror and trying to.

[00:17:47] Nicole Pendergrass: Decide or really dig deep and look at what you have been doing and what are some habits that you have that don’t serve you anymore, maybe they’ve been ingrained since your childhood, even outside of any diagnosed issues, just doing internal deep work by yourself is very hard. Did you go to therapy or did you do this all yourself? How did you handle it?

[00:18:12] Rich Jones: Oh, it’s been everything. I mean, I started seeing my therapist, Leona. I started seeing her in August, 2017. It was after a previous relationship had ended. I had one of those, I keep ending up in the same situation and the common denominator is me.

[00:18:31] Rich Jones: So. And so it’s, so I started seeing the therapist, but like also at that time, what people didn’t see publicly as how much behind the scenes I was struggling with alcohol. And so like getting a hold of that took years and I was achieving, I’m winning awards. People look at you, Rich, you doing all of this and behind the scenes, I’m struggling.

[00:18:53] Rich Jones: And a lot of us are you, you don’t see it on social, but that’s what ends up happening. And I just had that moment where I forgot what the prompt question was.

[00:19:01] Nicole Pendergrass: The prompt question was, you know, what deep work, internal work, like how, how did you work through that? I guess you said you had a, like a therapist, but what other, maybe, things you use, okay?

[00:19:12] Rich Jones: Got it. And so, yeah, I’m seeing this therapist for really, probably about four years before I started to kind of break through the surface. And sometimes it just takes time, you know, when it comes to getting through a lot of this stuff. And what I didn’t understand that I understand now is the level of layers. And so I did talk therapy for a number of years, and I think that it was helping, but there were still cycles that I wasn’t able to break, most particularly around my relationship with alcohol. But one thing that changed aside from quitting drinking was I also started working with a leadership coach in 2020 around the same time.

[00:19:48] Rich Jones: And I’m still working with that same leadership coach, shout out to coach, this very day. So I had someone who was kind of act, I guess, in like a coach mentorship capacity who was also a very big part and still is a very big part of my support system. And so, that made a big difference. And then, you know, I have a massage therapist. So somebody who was a podcast listener heard me mentioned back pain, reached out to me on LinkedIn and, you know, mentioned that they were based in the bay area. They were a physical therapist, ended up helping me get my back together. And then I thought about getting in track and field shape. I went back to this person. They were the first person I thought of. And the first few months I started training, this person was helping me get back up and running again, to be able to compete at this level. So that person also became part of my support system. And then, yeah, I mean, a lot of it, in terms of like the habits, it really is just like starting to understand, like, what my different triggers are and coming to terms with a lot of like the shame and the guilt and some folks talk about attachment styles, you know, and essentially learning like the way that I grew up. And here’s a revelation that I had recently that blew my mind and I wouldn’t have had this revelation, had I not gone through this type of therapy called EMDR, you probably have to ask me about it again.

[00:21:03] Rich Jones: I had this revelation that the way that I thought I grew up, isn’t actually how I grew up. The way that I recalled it, yes, there was, you know, every family has their stuff, but it was like nothing in comparison to what actually happened when I started like really uncovering and processing these memories through this EMDR therapy, which is a lot more intense because you’re essentially going back in time to process the memories that you couldn’t process then or that you couldn’t adequately be processed then because you were trying to survive. And so, like it’s been a continuous like years of this and I just got to a place where, I mean, look at that.

[00:21:37] Rich Jones: I I took a leave in 2021. Here I am, you know, we’re, we’re looking into, into may 20, 22 and like, I’m just like getting clarity on it and I won’t lie. The process is freaking exhausting. It really is because what people don’t tell you is one what it’s like to be alone with your thoughts, which I learned from being on that leave.

[00:21:57] Rich Jones: But also how exhausting it is to constantly think that, like you got to the root of the issue only to go wait, there’s more, wait, there’s more, wait, there’s more. And that’s what it’s been the past few months where like, I’ve really been getting to like the root of things. This is like the core of like what The Mental Wealth is. Like, now I have an appreciation and self-compassion for myself to like, realize this wasn’t just a me thing. And that, like, the things that I’ve experienced were set in motion before I even existed. Like, you know, this is like generational stuff that a lot of us are going through.

[00:22:29] Rich Jones: So, I mean, for me, it’s been, like, the support networks, you know, cutting alcohol was the best decision, one of the best decisions that I ever made in my life. I’m now back out here running track without it. And I think even just becoming an athlete, again, that was a huge part of my identity and that part of one’s identity doesn’t have to leave just because school ends.

[00:22:50] Rich Jones: You know, I competed in New York City in March, you know, won the bronze in my age group for the long jump. And I’ve been training for less than a year, you know? And the most beautiful thing that I saw at this meet was 60 and 70-year-old black men looking healthy as hell, running faster than me.

[00:23:06] Rich Jones: That is wealth-type stuff. If you’re out there doing that, like you’re like you were committed. That is the lifestyle. And so I, I think a lot of times where we get stuck, as we were picking up habits and tactics, as opposed to thinking about our holistic lifestyle because you don’t get into that type of shape and maintain that over the years if you’re not living a congruent lifestyle.

[00:23:27] Nicole Pendergrass: I completely agree. Just like such a fundamental part of being holistic. Like people need to plan for the whole picture, not just one piece here, one piece there, because then you don’t have that balance. And balance is a real thing. Like, and sometimes you’re maybe focused on one more, one area, maybe for one, sometimes focus on another.

[00:23:46] Nicole Pendergrass: It’s not completely all the time, like equally cut up percentage-wise and what your focus is on. But if holistically, you still have these things in place and you get a reprieve from some other areas of your life because you have something else going on over here. So I love, I love that.

[00:24:03] Nicole Pendergrass: And I love thinking about now, like planning for the future. The whole thing is about that. It’s like planning for the future. No one’s going to be here forever. Everyone has their point, but I want to live as long as possible and I want to be functional. Like, I want to be able to move around.

[00:24:16] Nicole Pendergrass: I want to be healthy. I want to be able to eat right now so that I can, you know, just feel more energetic and abundant later in my life. So I want my physical health and my financial health and my mental health all to be great, right? You need, you need all of those. So really quick. What is EMDR stand for?

[00:24:35] Rich Jones: Yup. Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing. So I’d encourage folks look up, just look up EMDR therapy. The internet will certainly do a much more thorough job of explaining it, but just know that the gist of it is accessing memories that are at the core of trauma because typically when we have a strong reaction to something in the moment, like when we get triggered, it’s never about that thing that’s happening in the moment. I even said this about like the whole Will Smith slap. I know everyone’s putting all their stuff on that, but it’s never about like, what’s actually happening in that moment. It’s about something that was encoded and embedded a long, long time ago. And so with EMDR, it’s helping you access that like much, much earlier thing that is at the root of why you’re getting triggered.

[00:25:19] Nicole Pendergrass: I definitely need to read that, too. Okay. So one more thing I do want to touch on, was it part of your wellness discovery and, and working on yourself that made you transition from Paychecks & Balances to The Mental Wealth Show and have The Mental Wealth Show last year.

[00:25:36] Rich Jones: Yeah, it’s been out and I’ve been taking breaks, you know, it’s, it’s kind of interesting. So, I made the pivot in October of 2021, yeah, while I was on the leave from work. All of this information that I gained and. The habits and things that I’ve picked up, it’s been super powerful. And so it was so powerful that I was like, you know what, given where I am in life and given the things that I want to talk about going forward now feels like the right time to change the name of the show.

[00:26:08] Rich Jones: And most, most importantly, it felt authentic. You know, it could just, because I thought about like where I was and like where I’m going. And since then things have continued to evolve. And so that’s why, you know, there’s The Mental Wealth Show podcast, but then there’s a parent brand that’s Find More Balance and that, and that is like the holistic wellness side of things. So for me, personal finance is still very important, in fact, it’s one of the main pillars on Find More Balance, but personal finance is still very much a part of that. But I’m realizing as I’m going through my own holistic journey that things, concepts myths and self-limiting beliefs that I had that I didn’t even know that I had. So even like seeing, you know, I’m not sure about your experience. I know some of the listeners can probably appreciate this, you may be able to, but if you’ve seen, I mean, the older we get, we’re starting to see people pass away, you know, even people from our class.

[00:27:00] Rich Jones: I feel like I’ve seen a lot of black men pass away, like, from different illnesses, sicknesses, I mean, violence and stuff aside. So to me, I’d already started having this feeling of like, I mean, F it, so this was before I started getting my stuff together, it was like F it, I might as well eat this way.

[00:27:16] Rich Jones: Like I might as well enjoy it while I can, because you know, the good times are almost over. And I didn’t even realize that I was thinking that way until I went to that meet. And I’m like, yo, it doesn’t have to end. It doesn’t have to be over.

[00:27:30] Rich Jones: It doesn’t have to be over. And that’s when I had that realization. So like, that’s, that’s something like a belief that like, I didn’t even know I had until I saw the example, but isn’t that always how we work? Like we only go for what we see.

[00:27:41] Nicole Pendergrass: Exactly. And that’s a good thing about people like you and what I’m trying to do as well. Just being out there. And even though we might be struggling through some things, but we’re trying to keep going, we’re pushing through right? Vocal on social media, I know you’re vocal on social media because we want people to see the options. We want to have people see that there’s someone else doing this and that you’re not alone or that it is possible and to just kind of bust limiting beliefs in that manner. So you’re, you’re doing fantastic. And you have like all your, your speaking engagements, your coaching, the wellness. I think the whole thing is, it’s fantastic what you’re doing.

[00:28:18] Rich Jones: I appreciate it. And I’ll put it this way. The fact that I’m able to talk about this publicly is a testament to therapy working. And I’m still going through it. It’s not suddenly easy. Like, yeah, I still have my moments, you know? People associate grief with death, but you can also grieve what never was and what may never be after you realize some things, you know? It’s very necessary work because some of these habits that I couldn’t kick things like you know, just, just getting like excessively defensive or like shutting down emotionally, like things that were impacting my relationships.

[00:28:54] Rich Jones: Like, things weren’t going to get better for me if I didn’t do this work. And so doing that work for self first, for me first, not for my partner, not for anybody else, if I didn’t do this for me first, like things, things aren’t like this right now.

[00:29:09] Nicole Pendergrass: Yeah. Yeah. Everyone needs to work on selves, but I kinda, I feel like I have those times when I want to sit down and think deeply and work on myself and really internalize. And when I actually, because I really don’t often have that quiet time, especially with two toddlers running around and I’m running back and forth and I’m going, like, you know, as soon as I get home from work, I’m doing real estate stuff. And then I’m more calls and I’m on this and that it’s like always something, right?

[00:29:32] Nicole Pendergrass: But when I have some quiet time and it’s like, oh, I should do some like self-work. And then my mind blanks. And I don’t even know like what I should be thinking about or what questions I should be asking myself or. You know, I don’t know what I should I actualy try trying to work out and it’s kind of like, I don’t know. I need to read some more books on self-help.

[00:29:53] Rich Jones: Yeah. So I wouldn’t call this a hack, but something that I like to do Fridays are my wellness days. So it doesn’t matter that I go into work Fridays. I’m either going to go to the sauna slash cold plunge. I’m going to get a massage. I’m going to do something for me.

[00:30:11] Rich Jones: It will be scheduled into my work day even if I have to cancel meetings. Like, I know I look forward to every Friday because I know that I’m going to do something for me. It could be a yoga class, so it might just be like, just like starting with that and just like figuring out like, yo, like, you know, what do I enjoy?

[00:30:28] Rich Jones:  Like, what moves me? Like, what do I want to do this time? I’m not a parent, but I would guess that, like, you spend a lot of your energy thinking about everybody else, but it’s important that you, you at least, I mean, even if it’s like an hour, like it could be going to the nail salon, but like, there has to be some time that like, you carve out like this just for you and once you get consistent about it, you train everybody else around you that like that time as you. Like, people want to like, Nope, where’s my, oh, it’s oh, it’s mommy wellness time. 

[00:30:57] Nicole Pendergrass: And especially, I mean, a two and a four-year-old is kind of hard at first, but as soon as this becomes consistent, then I’ll be like, it’s mommy wellness time. And they’ll be like, okay, we got to, you know, maybe the four-year-old will go, but the two-year-old still probably try to climb on me or do something.

[00:31:13] Rich Jones: I have no true idea.

[00:31:15] Nicole Pendergrass: No, it’s it’s okay. Like it’ll, as I do it consistently, it will become a part of what they know as they grow and so it will be a struggle at first. And so they get used to it. But in any case, oh my goodness, Rich, this has been so great. Like I’m glad that we were able to catch up. I’m glad you agreed to take time out of your busy schedule and pour into our listeners today because mental wealth is such a critical part of the holistic picture like we’ve been discussing. And I really, really thank you for coming along, because this is something we did need to talk about. So I’m going to ask you the last couple of questions that I ask every guest

[00:32:59] Nicole Pendergrass: First question is more about personal finance investing type of stuff if you have any type of thoughts on it.

[00:33:06] Nicole Pendergrass: But Warren Buffett said that diversification is protection against ignorance. What are your thoughts on that? What did he mean? And do you agree?

[00:33:15] Rich Jones: It’s funny because I’m thinking about how I agree, but then how I also do something financially that does not agree with that. So, so diversification to me is not putting all your eggs in one basket.

[00:33:27] Rich Jones: And so, most commonly for me, that is through index funds, whether it’s through my taxable investing account. I have a robo advisor account set up through Wealthfront. I choose to use a robo advisor, artificial intelligence-based service because I just kind of want to set it and forget it.

[00:33:42] Rich Jones: And so that’s, that’s worked well for me. And then I’ve also gotten into cryptocurrency a bit, so I’m starting to increase the amount of exposure that I have there. I have paused for a minute, even though they say buy the dips and all of that, I have paused. And that’s another thing for me. I don’t like to try to do too much at one time. So if life is getting really busy, like, I will pause how active I am in some other areas versus like ending up making some bad financial decisions ’cause I was feeling pressured and trying to do too much at at once. So, yeah, what I was going to say where I don’t diversify as a lot of folks who work in Silicon valley, we have access to RSU stock from publicly traded companies.

[00:34:22] Rich Jones: And I’ve been letting it just accumulate from all of these best events that I’ve had where this stock has gone into my portfolio. And they say like, never keep all your stock, all your Google stock, just sitting there. Like, what if the company tanks one day. Probably not going to happen, but some would argue that I should cash out some of that stock and re-invest it. So I can further diversify as, as opposed to having all of that money just in Google.

[00:34:47] Nicole Pendergrass: Yeah. So you’re, you’re specialized in Google, but then diversified with some of your AI investments. I think that that’s the smart way to do it.

[00:34:54] Rich Jones: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It’s super, super easy. Set it and forget it. That’s what I go for.

[00:35:00] Nicole Pendergrass: Okay. All right. Sounds good. The question is, even though it’s been awhile, so Boardwalk we know is the most expensive property. And then Baltic Avenue is on the other side of that. That’s the cheapest property. In your Monopoly strategy, if you were to play now, which property would you prefer and why?

[00:35:19] Rich Jones: The most expensive or the least expensive? Oh, man. And am I living in it? I gotta ask these.

[00:35:26] Nicole Pendergrass: I don’t know. Are you living in it or as in investment? Well, this is a wealth-building podcast. It’s more about investing and growing your money so it’s probably an investment.

[00:35:33] Rich Jones: Yeah. Yeah. If it’s an investment and the less priced property is in an area where there’s potential and it makes sense, yes. But otherwise the splurge-ologist in me wants to buy the higher-cost property ’cause I assume it already has all the amenities and everything else. I want to say I’m biased because I know that I like nice things. I’m like, I want to see that nice house first. So I can already imagine like what’s in that property.

[00:36:01] Nicole Pendergrass: Yeah. Yeah, no, I love that. You’re a splurge-ologist. I’m going to use that.

[00:36:06] Rich Jones: Yeah. It’s funny, like, the way that I would have answered that question before, I think I would immediately jump to like the lower price, but like, as I learned more that like, I like nice things and I pay for convenience. I see the value in intangible things, you know?

[00:36:23] Rich Jones: NFTs, people spending all sorts of money to get into NFTs or to invest in different crypto projects, you know? If the value is there, it might be worth it because that value at that moment could potentially be nothing compared to what that value could be down the road. I mean, that’s the market, that’s the game, right?

[00:36:39] Nicole Pendergrass: Yep. That’s the game. Oh, you know what? I almost forgot to show ‘cause my camera’s low, but look. I wore this today, just for you. This shirt is actually from Verneda. You remember Verneda? She’s another one of our college mates, undergrad. And she has a line called Hot Sauce, the America’s Hot Sauce. She has an article that is about black people being the definitive hot sauce.

[00:37:02] Rich Jones: Yeah. Yeah. She wrote that about her experience from Town & Country.

[00:37:06] Nicole Pendergrass: Yeah. Yeah. But in any case, thank you so much for, this has been a really fantastic episode. I love talking to you. I’m definitely gonna keep in contact more with you.

[00:37:20] Nicole Pendergrass: I won’t stalk you, but you know, you’ll hear from me a little bit more. We’ll keep the lines of communication open, but how can people reach out to you if they want to learn more about what you’re doing, if they’re interested in coaching services or whatever it is, how can they either follow you or reach out to you to connect?

[00:37:37] Rich Jones: Yeah. So I am on a social media, Twitter and Instagram at @paybalances. I’m a bit more active on Instagram. I’m actually phasing out how much I’m on social media because it was negatively contributing to my mental health. But otherwise the website right now, it is at paychecksandbalances.com.

[00:37:55] Rich Jones: In the future, it will be at findmorebalance.com. So what you should be able to get there either way. And I have, you know, a contact form, multiple ways to get in touch with me on the website, whether it’s having me to come speak, do a live podcast episode for your company or organization. I’ve done that. If it’s putting together a workshop, if it’s podcast consulting, all of that you can get to right now from paychecksandbalances.com.

[00:38:20] Nicole Pendergrass: Nice. I love it. Okay. Thank you. Thank you again so much again. This is Rich Jones. I am your hostess, Nicole Pendergrass and you have been listening to the Share The Wealth Show. If you’ve gotten any value from this episode, which I know you have, I need you to share it with your friends and make sure you like and subscribe. So you don’t miss future episodes.

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